Calling it quits!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

some people here really hypocritical.

want to show off then be upfront about it, want to humble then dun mention u are a millionaire at all. sounds dam fake when you keep dropping hints u r a millionaire then followed by the humble act of "oh btw thats nothing in sg lah"

this sound just like the typical trick conmen like kishore, kiyosaki, adam khoo use during their get rich quick courses

Don’t be naïve please. Do you really think any millionaire will waste time composing stories of riches or hurl financial jargons at each other in an effort to impress in a forum that is frequented by the unemployed, undergraduates or junior executives?

If you really want to interact with the rich online, valuebuddies.com is probably the closest Singapore forum you can find that is frequented by generally affluent folks. The have a good mix of aspiring young professionals, upper middle class and some really rich uncles/aunties.

The talk there is all cordial about investments philosophies, portfolio management, business analyses, politics and sometimes private hobbies. Most of the members there are of a certain maturity and see no need to keep harping on their personal wealth with childish declarations of pay, bonuses, passive income or jack up their finance credentials by deliberately writing in an obfuscating manner the way many obviously dreamy young boys are doing over here.

The behavior of most here are typical of lower income or middle class folks trying to act out what they perceive to be the mannerism of the rich and successful.

Originally Posted by ment

Don’t be naïve please. Do you really think any millionaire will waste time composing stories of riches or hurl financial jargons at each other in an effort to impress in a forum that is frequented by the unemployed, undergraduates or junior executives?

If you really want to interact with the rich online, valuebuddies.com is probably the closest Singapore forum you can find that is frequented by generally affluent folks. The have a good mix of aspiring young professionals, upper middle class and some really rich uncles/aunties.

The talk there is all cordial about investments philosophies, portfolio management, business analyses, politics and sometimes private hobbies. Most of the members there are of a certain maturity and see no need to keep harping on their personal wealth with childish declarations of pay, bonuses, passive income or jack up their finance credentials by deliberately writing in an obfuscating manner the way many obviously dreamy young boys are doing over here.

The behavior of most here are typical of lower income or middle class folks trying to act out what they perceive to be the mannerism of the rich and successful.

The fact that you can't understand the jargon in this thread must make you one of the naive middle-class "aspiring young professionals" I just looked at valuebuddies and it looks like a haven for the day traders, although does seem to have some useful stuff in it.

I think the difference with this forum is that you can post anonymously, while in valuebuddies you have to be registered, which takes away some of the "creativity". However, I don't really find any reason to doubt the main posters in this thread. IMHO, most post with a certain level of maturity and their arguments and issues are just as sound as some of the more complex valuebuddies threads that I found.

The fact that you find the posts here childish, obfusciating and from "dreamy young boys" does point to envy and your level of maturity. Your "upper middle class" and "really rich uncles/aunties" probably won't have a problem with the tread and would probably find it interesting.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The fact that you can't understand the jargon in this thread must make you one of the naive middle-class "aspiring young professionals" I just looked at valuebuddies and it looks like a haven for the day traders, although does seem to have some useful stuff in it.

Hmm... i visit valuebuddies and i think they are a good forum and most of the posters like musicwhiz, godjira, kakukirai, temperament etc are value investors who hold much more than buy/sell. I have found valuebuddies to be a good forum for investment discussion and that forum is different from salary.sg which is much more contentious and has much more variance in the type of posters. As rightly pointed out the anonymous feature probably drives the variance in viewpoints.

Originally Posted by whizzard

Thanks for pointing out. You are right!
Frankly, having a million today in Singapore is radically different from the yester-years. Cost of living in Singapore is very high these days and being more travelled and worldly-wise doesn't help keep the costs down too. So, having networth of a million (or more), would not necessarily confer on anyone the connotation that he/she be considered a millionaire, in my humble opinion.

Any thoughts or views on what today's definition of a millionaire ought to be?

haha! we are talking semantics here? Obviously a millionaire is someone who has 1M in net assets. I think the point you are trying to make is what is the amount needed to live life well by most people standards in SG nowadays. My personal answer is S$12M net worth and up. Here is how i arrive at it:

1) Annual expense for family with kids about $400K. Includes everything from primary housing mortgage interest, 2-3 cars, holidays, education, gifts, dining out, lux items etc. No lambo/ferraris, no private jet/1st class travel, no $100K watches or 10K bags. Can own porsche/merc, wear $10K watches, buy 3-5K bags. Eat anything u want.

2) Investment leveraged anything from 20% to 50% depending on prevailing interest rates. So investment portfolio between 14.4M to 18M. Some bonds, equities, alternatives, investment property(s) returning about 5% per annum on low risk basis. Remove the 1% interest, we net at 4%. So investment returns is about 570K to 720K. But this is not cashflow returns. Some of 4% will be capital gain. The actual cash flow will be closer to 3% or about 430K to 540K.

3) Investment returns exceed cost, cash dividends/coupons exceed annual expenses.

4) Assume working earning income >$200K on a more relaxed basis. Age say 45? With this combination can beat inflation of assume 3% and can still have leftover for kids. If assume dont work. Then i think need about >$15M with about 35% leverage then can cover inflation for sure.

5) to be ultra high networth. Read to fly 1st class, drive lambo, yadda yadda, by my conservative nature, will need at least 20M USD. That will generate >1M usd income to spend per year without even working.

Some people spend like UHNW, but actually their networth is more like 5-10M range. To each their own. So whizzard is right, don't lull into thinking one is richer than one actually is.

Last point - contentment is the key. And we get more contented the older and more matured we get (hopefully!). Otherwise, even the guy with 25M networth will feel poor when he/she hangs around people with 250M who own private jets and islands....

oh plz, muti-millionaire bankers talking about Basel III and even whether the spelling is "Basel" or "basle"? mutli-millionaires debating whether the definition of "millionaire" applies if one year u dun make $1mil? nonsense about millionaires feeling lonely in a freaking salary forum catered to job seekers?

seriously are u guys for real?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

oh plz, muti-millionaire bankers talking about Basel III and even whether the spelling is "Basel" or "basle"? mutli-millionaires debating whether the definition of "millionaire" applies if one year u dun make $1mil? nonsense about millionaires feeling lonely in a freaking salary forum catered to job seekers?

seriously are u guys for real?

Are you the guy who thought the Basle spelling was wrong? Haha

Originally Posted by whizzard

Thanks for pointing out. You are right!

I don't know about the rest but, a lot of us at the forum are just trying to get by as comfortably as we can in life and find this forum a good venue to share ideas, views and experiences.

Frankly, having a million today in Singapore is radically different from the yester-years. Cost of living in Singapore is very high these days and being more travelled and worldly-wise doesn't help keep the costs down too. So, having networth of a million (or more), would not necessarily confer on anyone the connotation that he/she be considered a millionaire, in my humble opinion.

In the past, when a person has a million, wow, he can live it up. These days, it's hardly enough to buy even a shoebox condo in district 9. In order to define a millionaire by today's terms, and this is only my own personal view, I think that person has to earn at least a million a year. Think about it, only with at least a million of income a year can one afford the basic luxuries in life without having to think twice about how he spends (within reasonable bounds - if one needs to buy a Lamborghini every year then that's going overboard and clearly insufficient) or fear depleting his networth.

I wanted to touch on this point lest we lull ourselves into the trap that by having a million or two we can consider ourselves a millionaire, which I think is clearly not the case.

Any thoughts or views on what today's definition of a millionaire ought to be?

I totally agree on that point, the concept of someone having a million these days is very very different to what it meant say 10 years ago.

Personally I have 1.5 Million in cash which I made from my various avenues (primarily property) and when I wanted to re-enter the market what I could actually buy with it was paltry if I wanted a decent location at a reasonably aged condo.

5 years ago the headlines would be about some condo which sold for 10 Million in orchard road, these days 50 - 100 Million dollar landed properties (99years at the cove/GCB) are quite common, I mean who parks 50 Million in a house that is 99 years c'mon. Not to mention I see million dollar cars parked at my workplace that literally sit there for weeks.

Value of money is just getting smaller by the day.

I actually find this thread to be one of the better one in this forum, compared to "what is your net worth", "what is your income" etc. There are some good constructive advice here on how to preserve wealth, use leverage, evaluating fixed income etc. I think most of the posters here are genuine multi millionaires, and their views are rather sophisticated. It's still a long long way to go before I can get to such level, and probably never as well. But still a good read nevertheless.

Lastly, doubters don't have to feel so bitter though.

Originally Posted by dives

I totally agree on that point, the concept of someone having a million these days is very very different to what it meant say 10 years ago.

I agree too as a multi millionaire myself. In fact just the other day, I was resting on my millions and wondering if I should spell millionaire with capital M or small m.

You see, I tend to use the word millionaire often. I use it when I speak to my millionaire friends, in bars that only millionaires hang out, golf courses worth millions in membership and in malls where I could easily spend million.

I don't want my millionaire counterparts to think that as a millionaire, I write or speak bad English.

So, should I spell it Millionaire, or millionaire? I have a million worries about this over a million times a day.

Million headache man.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think most of the posters here are genuine multi millionaires, and their views are rather sophisticated. It's still a long long way to go before I can get to such level, and probably never as well. But still a good read nevertheless.

As genuine as the Rolex at Patpong...