How is life as a doctor in Singapore?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Oh man. I hope a surgeon screw up your cancer operation. Just u die only, no biggie.

The work a surgeon does is important. It impacts the patient and his family. But there is an ethical limit that the surgeon can charge the patient for an operation. Refer to Dr Susan Lim's case. Also in the case of a screw up the patient and his family can sue the doctor for negligence. Individual basis. A surgeon can only make decisions that impact ONE person at a time. This limits his influence and importance and therefore in turn how much he earns. CEOs make decisions that impact the entire organization. Hundreds or thousands of jobs on the line. Revenues and profits in the millions or even billions. Far more important and far reaching work. Hence salary is commensurate that way. There is also no such thing as an "ethical limit" to the salaries of CEOs, Bankers, Lawyers, Politicians, Civil Servants, Accountants, Engineers, Businessmen, Entrepreneurs etc. Only doctors have this limit (which is not defined or established but is up to the judge to decide if the limit is breached)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The work a surgeon does is important. It impacts the patient and his family. But there is an ethical limit that the surgeon can charge the patient for an operation. Refer to Dr Susan Lim's case. Also in the case of a screw up the patient and his family can sue the doctor for negligence. Individual basis. A surgeon can only make decisions that impact ONE person at a time. This limits his influence and importance and therefore in turn how much he earns. CEOs make decisions that impact the entire organization. Hundreds or thousands of jobs on the line. Revenues and profits in the millions or even billions. Far more important and far reaching work. Hence salary is commensurate that way. There is also no such thing as an "ethical limit" to the salaries of CEOs, Bankers, Lawyers, Politicians, Civil Servants, Accountants, Engineers, Businessmen, Entrepreneurs etc. Only doctors have this limit (which is not defined or established but is up to the judge to decide if the limit is breached)

Lawyers have an ethical and ethical limit on charging/overcharging. They will get hauled by the law society before the disciplinary tribunal and possibly disbarred for gross overcharging. The situation is roughly the same with other self-regulating professions such as auditors (ISCA) and engineers (PEB) albeit not to the extent of heavily regulated professions such as doctors and lawyers.

Just by claiming that these professions don't have an "ethical limit" to charging, I know you don't have the slight idea what you're talking about.

Not sure whether you're that same troll who keeps harping on finance and making money, but can you guys please stop hijacking a doctors' thread spamming unrelated topics, and kindly f off.

SINGAPORE - There is no verdict yet on Dr Susan Lim's appeal against her guilty conviction from the Singapore Medical Council (SMC), but one question seems to have been answered: there is an ethical limit to what doctors can charge.

"Every profession must have ethical limits. That's what differentiates them from commerce. That is our overarching philosophy," said Judge of Appeal V. K. Rajah, one of three judges hearing the appeal on Tuesday.

But exactly where the ethical limit for a doctor lies, and whether Dr Susan Lim had breached it, are questions which the appeals court has yet to decide on.


These were among the issues discussed on Tuesday at a hearing that was scheduled to last 11/2 hours but instead lasted for five.

Explaining why he was giving both sides more time to argue the case, Justice Rajah said: "We're aware that this case is of considerable importance to both parties and the wider public."

The closely watched case involves Dr Lim having charged a royal patient from Brunei about $25 million for half a year's care, before cutting the bill to $12.1 million.


The doctor was eventually found guilty last year of professional misconduct by the SMC's disciplinary committee, which ruled that she had grossly overcharged her patient.

The committee said notwithstanding any patient-doctor agreement, no doctor should charge more than an "ethical limit". However, it did not state what that limit should be.

In appealing the decision, Dr Lim's lawyers argued on Tuesday that such an "ethical limit" has never been mentioned previously.

Therefore, it would not be fair or legal to find a doctor guilty of doing something in breach of an unknown rule, said Mr Lee Eng Beng of Rajah & Tann.

Having settled that doctors here should be subject to an ethical limit, the Court of Appeal also suggested on Tuesday that a regulator like the Ministry of Health has the right to intervene if it felt that the limit had been breached.

This is even if there was an agreement between the doctor and a patient who is "perfectly happy to pay 100 times the normal rate", said Justice Rajah.

The appeals court, however, questioned some aspects of the disciplinary committee's decision, as well as its sentencing.

Justice Rajah wanted to know what yardstick had been used by the committee in imposing the relatively heavy sentence of a three-year suspension on Dr Lim.

He asked Mr Alvin Yeo of Wong- Partnership, who acted for the SMC, for information on other doctors who had been given the maximum penalty, short of being struck off the register.

Mr Yeo took pains to explain that for six months, the patient had received palliative care and Dr Lim was not required to do any surgery. Some of the time was spent in intensive care, and she merely acted as a coordinator.

He asked the court "what sort of disapproval" they would give a lawyer who was only coordinating and had not appeared in a trial, but presented a huge bill.

However, Justice Rajah said it would be easy to fix an appropriate fee for such a lawyer. He then asked if Dr Lim reported regularly to the palace and suggested her role might have been that of a "court physician".

The judge also asked for examples of double billing on the part of Dr Lim to prove the charge of misrepresentation.

He said the court "has to be painstaking" as this would be a "criminal offence". He also asked if the committee had given credit to Dr Lim for halving the bill to $12.1 million with a discount.

Mr Yeo said no credit was due because the higher bill was "deliberate and intentional" and the discount "showed a consciousness of her own guilt".

Mr Yeo has a week to provide additional information and Mr Lee has three weeks to rebut. The court reserved judgment.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Banker making decisions that affect hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions hence affecting thousands if not millions of people. Surgeon removing cancer if screw up only kills ONE person. No fight. Even airline pilot decision making more important than surgeon as it can affect hundreds of lives.

To be honest, investment bankers are economically unproductive and financial engineering is a parasitic tax on the global economy. In fact, if they did nothing at all the world would be a better place, think Lehman brothers bank, GFC, etc.

If all the bankers of the world disappeared from the world tomorrow, the world would be able to function just as well without them. But if scientists, doctors, and farmers disappeared, the world would be in chaos. Think about your covid vaccine, if there were no doctors/scientists, a good percentage of the world population would have been gone by now already.

Therefore doctors are very underpaid compared to bankers from that perspective. The fact that bankers are allowed to earn their millions despite their detrimental impact on humanity points to moral complacency of the ruling elite.

I am finishing my residency in the UK and want to move to Sg. Do I apply to MOHH?

Also would i be eligible for a full registration from the start or only conditional registration?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That one is for diagnostic medicine specialist from Department of Diagnostic Medicine.
There was a TV series before showcasing this specialty. HOUSE MD. Only after they have figured out what the problem is and if it belongs to Internal Medicine or General Medicine then the patient is admitted to that respective ward for treatment.
Many of these specialist are found in the A&E in singapore hospitals.

Is there a difference between internal medicine and general medicine. Sorry noob here. not a doctor in sg

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Firstly, Ur fracgp doesn't get u anything more than conditional reg which means u have to work under supervision. . None of the diploma by Australia uni gives u an financial edge.
Private wise only raffles can hire u. Government wise, it's mohh or one of the polyclinic.
Thing is, polyclinic seldom hire overseas trained gp straight as u typically can't hit the floor running unlike one of the local guys who had rotate through 1 year of polyclinic settings and proven to work under pressure ( plus with knowledge of local guidelines , referrals, social system, hospital system and even knowing how to use the terrible system known as epic and Nehr). Polyclinic bosses under a lot of pressure and every hire is valuable. Few of them want to chance it on an unknown. Furthermore as u have a non local qualifications, u cannot advance to consultant and that means u more likely to leave once u hit full reg. Now why do I want to hire u with all that uncertainty?

When mohh hires u, the salary is not great la. If unwork hard in auz, u probably getting 100 ton150 an hour. Mohh Dr get 5k a month nia. And no, Ur fracgp doesn't give u more money.
Raffles might not take u too. Same reason as above, u can't hit the floor running as primary care is quite contextualised Vs say a hard core skill like surgery. Eg, a Singapore trained gp going over will not know what Medicare is, what's the big deal about aboriginal health , what's a long consult , what's a short one and gasp, u can't sell medication to your patient?!! And what's with 15 minutes consult? That's a luxury! I have 2 mins per patient in sg!

Stay in Australia la. Best bet financially.
If it's family then come back sg , reset urself with mohh and maybe move after 2 to 3 years.

This is the best and true advice u gonna get. Ignore trolls who are not even real docs.

Are foreign trained doctor post-grad qualifications now recognised locally? Why cant he progress to be a consultant?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is there a difference between internal medicine and general medicine. Sorry noob here. not a doctor in sg

General Medicine is GPs no specialists. Internal Medicine is satki high power specialists.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What schools are you referring to? The list of recognized overseas schools have been revised. The IMG representation in training is surprisingly high, have a look at the current trainees even in competitive residencies and you’ll notice quite a fair bit of them are overseas trained.

Is the number of overseas trained doctors vs locally trained doctors that got into residency published?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

To be honest, investment bankers are economically unproductive and financial engineering is a parasitic tax on the global economy. In fact, if they did nothing at all the world would be a better place, think Lehman brothers bank, GFC, etc.

If all the bankers of the world disappeared from the world tomorrow, the world would be able to function just as well without them. But if scientists, doctors, and farmers disappeared, the world would be in chaos. Think about your covid vaccine, if there were no doctors/scientists, a good percentage of the world population would have been gone by now already.

Therefore doctors are very underpaid compared to bankers from that perspective. The fact that bankers are allowed to earn their millions despite their detrimental impact on humanity points to moral complacency of the ruling elite.

Too bad you live in Singapore. In Singapore doctors are not respected, only bankers, politicians, FTs are worshipped for their million dollars salaries.