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  #21371 (permalink)  
Old 13-06-2024, 04:31 PM
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I don't think it is as simple an issue as just comparing an US lawyer vs a commonwealth lawyer given that an US lawyer with equivalent experience would have at least 4 years of age on top of the UK or SG lawyer (even when taking into account the lost NS years). Age plays a large role in how well lawyers are perceived in their role unfortunately.
It is a truth universally acknowledged by any practising lawyer that the degree does NOT matter. Whether it is a degree from a US, SG or African law school does not make one a better/more successful lawyer.

Why? First, the practise of law is not as academic; it's more procedural/administrative. You learn on the job and it does not take a dean's list brain to be competent (often, clients can't even tell the diff). Second, the ones who get promoted to "equity partner" are oddly not usually the 1st class honors from top unis - maybe God is fair - but the ones who have good connections (maybe thru family or a retiring partner) and make it rain.

All that said, unfortunately, SG law firms are cheap and pay like sh*t, so their assocs all jump to intl firms for $$.



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  #21372 (permalink)  
Old 13-06-2024, 04:32 PM
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It is a truth universally acknowledged by any practising lawyer that the degree does NOT matter. Whether it is a degree from a US, SG or African law school does not make one a better/more successful lawyer.

Why? First, the practise of law is not as academic; it's more procedural/administrative. You learn on the job and it does not take a dean's list brain to be competent (often, clients can't even tell the diff). Second, the ones who get promoted to "equity partner" are oddly not usually the 1st class honors from top unis - maybe God is fair - but the ones who have good connections (maybe thru family or a retiring partner) and make it rain.

All that said, unfortunately, SG law firms are cheap and pay like sh*t, so their assocs all jump to intl firms for $$.
I come from Big 4 law firm and I agree. Can't wait to get out.

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  #21373 (permalink)  
Old 13-06-2024, 04:42 PM
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I'm at an int'l law firm. For many matters, we get outbid by the likes of b4 for ridiculously low quotes

Hell, even Bakers bid half our quotes.

It's a race to the bottom, and that's why assocs are bearing the brunt of unrealistic promises because Singapore law firms keep undercutting and undercutting



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  #21374 (permalink)  
Old 13-06-2024, 09:51 PM
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I'm at an int'l law firm. For many matters, we get outbid by the likes of b4 for ridiculously low quotes

Hell, even Bakers bid half our quotes.

It's a race to the bottom, and that's why assocs are bearing the brunt of unrealistic promises because Singapore law firms keep undercutting and undercutting
Funny you say this, because Iíve seen true international firms (e.g. A&O, CC) undercutting Bakers as well. I think in Singapore honestly itís a race to the ****ing bottom because of cheap clients. Good paying clients are very hard to find.
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  #21375 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2024, 10:01 AM
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Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.

My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.

I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.

I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :

1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds

2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?

Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.
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  #21376 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2024, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rustom24 View Post
Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.

My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.

I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.

I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :

1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds

2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?

Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.
1. He will get a TC if he's not picky about the firm, the pay, etc.
2. Yes, internships matter. If your grades aren't great, you can try to show you're a really hard worker and willing to take on **** without complaint, takes initiative and eager to please. Law firm partners are mostly just SME owners and like SME owners they love the employee that's willing to bend over backwards for peanuts.
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  #21377 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2024, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rustom24 View Post
Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.

My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.

I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.

I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :

1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds

2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?

Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.
Hi, yes to both.

1. Law firms look deeper into grades they did well in- fundamentals matter more (e.g. contract, tort, company, depending on area of practice) so if they did badly in e.g. consti law, jurisprudence, it may not matter as much.

2. Generally yes. For disputes or advisory/regulatory practices, grades are more important/required. But transactional and other practice areas may not require stellar grades, just "good enough" along with relevant practical experience, interest, motivation, and interpersonal skills.

2A. Note that answer 2 didnt really answer your Q2. But yes, internships can help a lot- more directly into the same firm for mid-small sized firms, and general transferability as to big4/int'l firms. Though it should be noted that if you fk up during your internship, or look clueless/bad, you will likely not get a tc at that same firm even though you did an internship there vs. a candidate who came from elsewhere who is more sound.
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  #21378 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2024, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustom24 View Post
Hey everyone I am new to this so i dont even know how to start a thread please don't mind me.

My son is currently in a local law school (located in bukit timah albeit not for long) and his grades are worrying. He is currently averaging a 3.0/5 GPA after his first year.

I would not say he is a slacker because he definitely puts in effort and has studied alot but we all know this is law school and everyone is probably putting in 8 hours a day minimum.

I am not well versed in the legal field so please don't mind my questions if they sound stupid :

1. Will he be able to secure a TC in Year 3 if his grades are a 2nd Lower? I know big4 is out of the question but what about smaller to midsize firms? What are the odds

2. Does doing internships matter to a hirer when they are giving out Training contracts?

Hope you guys can fill me in on this. A worried, clueless father here.


Hi, I was in a similar position awhile back in the same school and eventually graduated with 2nd lower (didnt have any special extracurricular awards etc. either although that would definitely help) but managed to secure TC in y3 summer after interning at said firm (a smaller mid-sized firm but felt it was a good fit for me) and am content with how things turned out.

Anyway since he's only in year 1, there's still a good chance he'll be able to improve his GPA so dont worry too much. I've also heard of friends who managed to change and secure TCs after applying again with improved grades
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  #21379 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2024, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
1. He will get a TC if he's not picky about the firm, the pay, etc.
2. Yes, internships matter. If your grades aren't great, you can try to show you're a really hard worker and willing to take on **** without complaint, takes initiative and eager to please. Law firm partners are mostly just SME owners and like SME owners they love the employee that's willing to bend over backwards for peanuts.
Thank you so much for the reply, appreciate it
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  #21380 (permalink)  
Old 14-06-2024, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi, yes to both.

1. Law firms look deeper into grades they did well in- fundamentals matter more (e.g. contract, tort, company, depending on area of practice) so if they did badly in e.g. consti law, jurisprudence, it may not matter as much.

2. Generally yes. For disputes or advisory/regulatory practices, grades are more important/required. But transactional and other practice areas may not require stellar grades, just "good enough" along with relevant practical experience, interest, motivation, and interpersonal skills.

2A. Note that answer 2 didnt really answer your Q2. But yes, internships can help a lot- more directly into the same firm for mid-small sized firms, and general transferability as to big4/int'l firms. Though it should be noted that if you fk up during your internship, or look clueless/bad, you will likely not get a tc at that same firm even though you did an internship there vs. a candidate who came from elsewhere who is more sound.
Thank you so much for the comprehensive answer! Appreciate it!
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