Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I agree with your points. But personally I don’t assume that top graduates become good practitioners - didn’t mean it that way. I been in practice for some time now and have good / great law students not excelling in practice, and average law students excelling in practice.

I myself was from a crap uni with average grades and I’ve survived longer than some of my more esteemed peers.

I have a slightly different take on why this is so. It's not necessarily just because of "excelling in practice". Especially at the junior level, what counts as being a good lawyer is rather nebulous.

Law can be very elitist and prestige oriented.

If you started out in a prestigious firm, it will give your career trajectory and exit options an outsized boost due to the nature of the cases or deals you were lucky to work on. All other things being equal, an average law student who was lucky enough to get a Big 4 TC (maybe because he/she is good at interviews, personable, good looking etc), may end up in an international firm.

I've seen many good students who didn't manage to secure a Big 4 TC for some reason or other, and are languishing in small or mid size firms and will forever remain there because they don't get a chance to assist with top tier work. That sets the trajectory of one's legal career.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have a slightly different take on why this is so. It's not necessarily just because of "excelling in practice". Especially at the junior level, what counts as being a good lawyer is rather nebulous.

Law can be very elitist and prestige oriented.

If you started out in a prestigious firm, it will give your career trajectory and exit options an outsized boost due to the nature of the cases or deals you were lucky to work on. All other things being equal, an average law student who was lucky enough to get a Big 4 TC (maybe because he/she is good at interviews, personable, good looking etc), may end up in an international firm.

I've seen many good students who didn't manage to secure a Big 4 TC for some reason or other, and are languishing in small or mid size firms and will forever remain there because they don't get a chance to assist with top tier work. That sets the trajectory of one's legal career.

Yeah, I can wholeheartedly second this. At least in corp, I realized very early on in practice that the reputation of the first team which you train and start as an associate with is probably the most important factor in determining your career trajectory (your actual ability comes second). I have seen astoundingly mediocre associates get recruited into well-known international firms purely on the basis of the reputation of their B4 teams (and from what I have seen, these associates usually constitute 70-80% of the B4 corp assoc pool). The only way to really tell if a B4 assoc is worth his salt is whether s/he was able to make it into one of the top internationals with tough technical rounds (most notably the MCs).

Name the 11 cheats?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

There is also hearsay that there are many, many more students who have been caught for cheating - it seems that just that 11 applications have been received by the AGC. No one seems to mentioned this at all in the any of the news posts.

Also, after doing some quick research, SILE is actually run by the AGC, Law Society and all of the big law firms in Singapore, who are directors of the SILE. In fact, the AG is the chairman of the SILE. This would imply that, in substance , all the firms, AGC and LawSoc may have been aware of this incident earlier, and had already made a decision on the matter. As such, I see some inconsistencies with how the matter has been dealt with by the relevant authorities, and it would be fair to say that a proportionate decision is reached balancing both the interests of the general public, legal profession and the cheaters.

At this point, those who have retaken the exams and are not pending application will definitely not dare to apply for admission anymore. In substance, you will never see any of these people in legal practice again, whether they have been caught or not. I highly doubt that they will be admitted anyway based on the increased standards of review as reported by the newspapers for the different bodies. Naming those 6 now will end their legal and professional careers, so I think the judge made a fair and considered decision for the moment, which will definitely be reviewed again in the future, when they are due to be actually admitted after the adjournment is done.

The outrage that general public and members of the public have is also very valid, but at this point one wonders whether SILE, the institution who administered the exam, should also take responsibility for this - as the TODAY article mentioned it was so commonplace to hear of people sharing answers anyway. How is this different from those who have been caught? I think those anonymous people should be revealed too to leak out those people who had shared answers online but were not mentioned.

WTF? Are you one of the cheats? SILE should take responsibility?

You cheats deserve harsher sanctions.

has anyone completed a liti tc and applied to another b4 corp team as an NQ? any tips or considerations in doing so?

current student thinking of applying to corp but not sure which sub-practice area would be suitable for me - and was wondering if anyone has advice on how to go about choosing? or should i just go for m&a?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

WTF? Are you one of the cheats? SILE should take responsibility?

You cheats deserve harsher sanctions.

They are desperate because of the possibility of their names being leaked.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

There is also hearsay that there are many, many more students who have been caught for cheating - it seems that just that 11 applications have been received by the AGC. No one seems to mentioned this at all in the any of the news posts.

Also, after doing some quick research, SILE is actually run by the AGC, Law Society and all of the big law firms in Singapore, who are directors of the SILE. In fact, the AG is the chairman of the SILE. This would imply that, in substance , all the firms, AGC and LawSoc may have been aware of this incident earlier, and had already made a decision on the matter. As such, I see some inconsistencies with how the matter has been dealt with by the relevant authorities, and it would be fair to say that a proportionate decision is reached balancing both the interests of the general public, legal profession and the cheaters.

At this point, those who have retaken the exams and are not pending application will definitely not dare to apply for admission anymore. In substance, you will never see any of these people in legal practice again, whether they have been caught or not. I highly doubt that they will be admitted anyway based on the increased standards of review as reported by the newspapers for the different bodies. Naming those 6 now will end their legal and professional careers, so I think the judge made a fair and considered decision for the moment, which will definitely be reviewed again in the future, when they are due to be actually admitted after the adjournment is done.

The outrage that general public and members of the public have is also very valid, but at this point one wonders whether SILE, the institution who administered the exam, should also take responsibility for this - as the TODAY article mentioned it was so commonplace to hear of people sharing answers anyway. How is this different from those who have been caught? I think those anonymous people should be revealed too to leak out those people who had shared answers online but were not mentioned.

What is wrong with "end[ing] their legal and professional careers"? That's exactly what the 6 cheaters deserve. They cheat on a bar exam today, they cheat their clients tomorrow. Their names have already been circulating among lawyers. It's a matter of time until someone like Charles Yeo publishes their names.

Can anyone share the Big 4's work from home policy, following the government's announcement of a full resumption of working from the office?

Am considering which firm to lateral to.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Can anyone share the Big 4's work from home policy, following the government's announcement of a full resumption of working from the office?

Am considering which firm to lateral to.

How about you get in first and then let us know your options?