Data Analytics

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Ignoring the obviously trolling numbers above, this is on the mid lower end. Industry, major and university? Your pay heavily depends on your industry and company to be honest. E.g. Banks should be able to pay more

It's an offer from an engineering firm.. GLC too. I'm not expecting for the sky but was expecting it to be at least 3.5k since this field is supposedly hot. My master is from an overseas well known school in U.K. .. so I do feel like I'm being underpaid given my qualification.. is this industry so poorly paid? Wasn't keen to join finance.. but if data analytics area is so bad in Singapore, I will consider to just seek a finance job.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

There are places who r offering such salary. Jus check how much they revised the salary for govtech tap program to get a sense of how much the big employers are willing to pay to attract talents.

I would love to see who will pay near 8k a month for someone with only 1.5 years of experience. Top stat boards are well known for offering high initial pay. MAS GO are paid near what bank pays their MA. However it is not 7-8k a month after 1.5 years. And govtech TAP is not only for data science, its also for apps developer, which at the moment is even more highly sought after, hence the higher pay

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You sound like someone fresh out of a stats 101 class trying to show off what you just learnt and I am not sure if this is some rhetoric to prove your superior statistical knowledge but I shall entertain you non the less.

s://blog.data.gov.sg/how-we-caught-the-circle-line-rogue-train-with-data-79405c86ab6a#.cgb2zqkr8i

Come, got people to entertain. So I talk some more.

You know what, I think what you say got point lei. I won't say you're wrong. But actually your reply proved my earlier point. Hah.

I was saying that people come here, talk big, talk say what to join data analytics but not ONE is able to engage in an intellectual discussion. Let me guess, most here got degree in economics or say masters in statistics but copy homework right ... come admit it. Last chance.

Not blaming you lah. But everyone come here talk about how much to earn but can't answer a simple question: define the standard error of a regression and how is it related to the standard deviation of the estimation of the Beta. (answer: it is equal assuming the Beta is normal)

You think I talk big right? My point is a wise one: People want to get into data analytics, but do these people actually like the HARD SCIENCE in the analytics involved. Or do they like to just come, define experiments, delegate, think about the external factors because they aren't prepared to get on a computer 9 hours a day and code in R actual results.

So it's either 1) you're true or 2) people want to get in this field but don't know anything about the HARD SCIENCE.

I end by asking for more intellectual discussion, one that could easily be in an interview. If not in an interview, hmmm ... wonder how much analytics is that in the role. Maybe none. Lolx.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When we talk about correlation and causation in analytics, generally we are speaking about not missing out external factors that might be the root cause.

Before you start a model, you assume whether the good is luxury or not. Then what is the mathematical answer to drop in price CAUSES a drop in sales. Come, give 10 secs. I wait. Maybe use correlation right ... ? Admit one. It is Price lag 1 regress with Sales lag 0. Is the assumption constant variance for sales or do you have a varying variance? I ask everyone. The term is heter ... heter ... what?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

However if you look further, you might notice that the economy is entering a recession, hence leading to both the decrease in your product price and a decrease in sales due to people not spending.

Woah, si bei shiok. Bring in term factor without telling me. Very good. So can people translate "economy is entering a recession, hence leading to both the decrease in your product price and a decrease in sales" into a mathematical statement to test your hypothesis. Hehe, those who exam copy answer probably stuck here. Nvm, I give you hint, you probably need two equations.

You reply me, I reply. Come I want to talk more.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It's an offer from an engineering firm.. GLC too. I'm not expecting for the sky but was expecting it to be at least 3.5k since this field is supposedly hot. My master is from an overseas well known school in U.K. .. so I do feel like I'm being underpaid given my qualification.. is this industry so poorly paid? Wasn't keen to join finance.. but if data analytics area is so bad in Singapore, I will consider to just seek a finance job.

A field being hot means nothing if everybody also know and applying. A hot field does not mean high starting pay, ask all those in IT, Life Science or Compliance. All are/were super hot fields paying averagely.

What is your definition of well known school in UK? Other than the few usual prestigious UK universities, employers in Singapore usually rank them lower than the 3 local university. Whether this is fair or not is irrelevant, that's how the job market in SG work.

GLCs tend to have lower basic and higher bonus, you need to take that into account. Reality is for general analytics sort of entry level work even MNCs will pay at most high 3k+, but many of them have no aws and lower bonus. My guesstimate is total starting package regardless of GLC or MNC is ~50-55k.

I doubt it's going to be much better even if you finance. A typical analyst job in finance is also around there, back office ops is even much lower.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

A field being hot means nothing if everybody also know and applying. A hot field does not mean high starting pay, ask all those in IT, Life Science or Compliance. All are/were super hot fields paying averagely.

What is your definition of well known school in UK? Other than the few usual prestigious UK universities, employers in Singapore usually rank them lower than the 3 local university. Whether this is fair or not is irrelevant, that's how the job market in SG work.

GLCs tend to have lower basic and higher bonus, you need to take that into account. Reality is for general analytics sort of entry level work even MNCs will pay at most high 3k+, but many of them have no aws and lower bonus. My guesstimate is total starting package regardless of GLC or MNC is ~50-55k.

I doubt it's going to be much better even if you finance. A typical analyst job in finance is also around there, back office ops is even much lower.

I'm not sure if LSE is consider as well known in sg or not but it definitely is in U.K.. or in finance. The problem is even if I take my potential performance bonus into consideration, it is barely reaching 50k, and performance bonus is not guaranteed..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm not sure if LSE is consider as well known in sg or not but it definitely is in U.K.. or in finance. The problem is even if I take my potential performance bonus into consideration, it is barely reaching 50k, and performance bonus is not guaranteed..

I think LSE is considered good, but not prestigious in Sg. Part of it is their brand got damaged by hordes of SIM students claiming to be LSE in their CVs as well.

As for 50k all-in package I already told you that's the norm. Pay isn't just about certs, the big factor is state of economy. In a poor job market like now where private unis are getting contract jobs at 2.5k+ a month and many local uni grads in pte sector getting 3k perm packages, how much leverage does a LSE grad actually have?

I think 50k package is on the low side for your cert, but it is not so low until totally unreasonable. If you were to go for typical MO type of analyst job in the banks they would probably pay 3.8-4k w/o AWS and 1-2 mths bonus which will pitch you closer to 55k range.

Of course you can say IB or trading house make a lot more, but in this environment where FO jobs shrinking, headcount freeze and many experienced retrenchees looking around, it will be a very tough sell even for a LSE grad.

How long have you been sending CVs before you got this offer?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think LSE is considered good, but not prestigious in Sg. Part of it is their brand got damaged by hordes of SIM students claiming to be LSE in their CVs as well.

As for 50k all-in package I already told you that's the norm. Pay isn't just about certs, the big factor is state of economy. In a poor job market like now where private unis are getting contract jobs at 2.5k+ a month and many local uni grads in pte sector getting 3k perm packages, how much leverage does a LSE grad actually have?

I think 50k package is on the low side for your cert, but it is not so low until totally unreasonable. If you were to go for typical MO type of analyst job in the banks they would probably pay 3.8-4k w/o AWS and 1-2 mths bonus which will pitch you closer to 55k range.

Of course you can say IB or trading house make a lot more, but in this environment where FO jobs shrinking, headcount freeze and many experienced retrenchees looking around, it will be a very tough sell even for a LSE grad.

How long have you been sending CVs before you got this offer?

Not really long. Have been sending since October but wasn't that aggressive in spamming resumes. Reason was I couldn't find much entry level jobs in analytics or perhaps I'm looking at the wrong direction. Most of the analytics requires around 2 years of experience. Recently I'm contemplating to just join MO in banks, which isn't something that I'm actually interested in. I'm interested in this field but if the salary in this field is facing the same fate as other IT or engineering jobs, then I guess it's time for me to reconsider going this path. Most of my friends went into consulting so I guess that's why I feel that I'm even more underpaid compared to them.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Not really long. Have been sending since October but wasn't that aggressive in spamming resumes. Reason was I couldn't find much entry level jobs in analytics or perhaps I'm looking at the wrong direction. Most of the analytics requires around 2 years of experience. Recently I'm contemplating to just join MO in banks, which isn't something that I'm actually interested in. I'm interested in this field but if the salary in this field is facing the same fate as other IT or engineering jobs, then I guess it's time for me to reconsider going this path. Most of my friends went into consulting so I guess that's why I feel that I'm even more underpaid compared to them.

Well you can try your luck in consulting as well. I think MBB is no chance, but those tier 2 types like OW or Aon may be possible. Consulting is different, for their kind of hours it is debatable whether their salary is high or just doing OT.

As for banking MO, it's a possibility. But like I said the starting isn't fantastic either, so you should think carefully whether it is worth to do something you don't like in the first place just because they pay you 5-10% higher. Skills in MO not very portable, so it is not easy to move into corporate finance or strategy in other industries.

MO people tend to stay within MO or BO (some banks don't differentiate) and you will really be stuck doing something you don't like for the long term. At your age, you shouldn't be taking up jobs that you have no interest just for that extra few hundred a month. Think long term and gather experience that you need.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well you can try your luck in consulting as well. I think MBB is no chance, but those tier 2 types like OW or Aon may be possible. Consulting is different, for their kind of hours it is debatable whether their salary is high or just doing OT.

As for banking MO, it's a possibility. But like I said the starting isn't fantastic either, so you should think carefully whether it is worth to do something you don't like in the first place just because they pay you 5-10% higher. Skills in MO not very portable, so it is not easy to move into corporate finance or strategy in other industries.

MO people tend to stay within MO or BO (some banks don't differentiate) and you will really be stuck doing something you don't like for the long term. At your age, you shouldn't be taking up jobs that you have no interest just for that extra few hundred a month. Think long term and gather experience that you need.

You seems knowledgeable about the industry.. do u know how it is like for this field?
I will most likely to accept this offer to give it a try first I guess..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You seems knowledgeable about the industry.. do u know how it is like for this field?
I will most likely to accept this offer to give it a try first I guess..

I am doing work closely tied to pension analytics, so it is a subset of the predictive data analytics field.

Based on my observation, the biggest problem with this field is everyone is claiming to be doing high level data analytics. Finance, Marketing, IT, HR, Supply Chain, Engineering, Manufacturing - you name it. It's the trendy field of big data and most MNCs have hopped onto the bandwagon at least on paper.

How many of these advertised jobs are truly high level sophisticated data analytics requiring advanced mathematics in modelling and hypothesis testing? I think <10%.

Most of it is pretty much process implementation and reporting/monitoring analytics. Anyone with decent degree in a quantitative field can OJT and pick it up in a short while, which explains the huge supply of applicants and depressed pay levels.

Having said that, it is also true that if you are able to find a niche and get the required insider technical knowledge and professional network, the career trajectory is impressive. My own field of pension analytics is one of the niches, many locals see this as 'uncool' and would rather do sexy stuff in Marketing or Finance, but I know many senior specialists in this field are making big bucks comparable to top finance or management consulting partners.

The important thing is to break into a field to get the technical experience and know the people. Once you have that, getting into the real specialists work tends to get easier. A lot of it is also luck. There are many people who just do the low value analyses work year after year without really getting anywhere. Just look at the banks, every year hire hundreds/thousands of people into BO/MO space as "analyst". How many really progress beyond AVP/VP level which is just typical junior/middle level? Very few.