calculate salary must calculate the hidden cost also

Originally Posted by Unregistered

how do you get sales for your software outfit?

direct sales to corporates

Originally Posted by kakarukeys

Two employees, one works 9-5, always knocks off on time, one is made to do overtime every day and always comes back on weekends. Suppose the figures on their monthly pay slips are the same. Are they compensated equally by their employers?

No. They are not. One is obviously underpaid than the other. I don't know why some people here can't understand this simple obvious fact.

Your situation is obviously very different from this new example you gave. Let me remind you what you said earlier:

You started out this thread seemingly shaken by the fact that your friend "gloated" on your low pay & invited you to join her in her company, i.e. her monthly basic is much higher than yours. You then proceeded to load all sorts of assumptions and finally came out with the conclusion that your pay is the same as your friend after adjusting for amount of work done.

Many forumers disagreed and said that this is an overly simplistic view. Many examples were given on how this leads to all sorts of ridiculous conclusion like tution teacher, SAF regulars earning higher than investment bankers using your method which obviously make no sense.

Then there is also the difference between your company billing by hr and you getting a fixed monthly basic. Again follow your logic lead to another dead end that Starhub engineers should compare their pay by second since their company bill clients by seconds. Of course this is nonsensical & once again nobody was convinced.

You then try to wriggle your way out by claiming all sorts of value to free time with friends, family & friends as well as more assumptions on how much money you can theoretically make with your free time.

Somebody also pointed out earlier your examples are all missing the building up of career potential. You are just taking present salary divide by hours, a lot of people understand that by hour their pay is low, but are sticking around because of the desire to build up their CV which will enable to get much higher pay in the future compared to a 9-5 job in a SME. Junior accountants/auditors in big4 is a good example.

At the end of the day, nobody is faulting your for choosing a lobo 9-5 low paying job in a SME in return for work life balance. Your life your choice. But your various lingual & mathematical gymnastics to rationalize your obviously very low pay into something else falls flat on the face.

[kakarukeys]

And you were silenced by my new example. Good if you finally see the truth in it. It's different from my situation but it conveys the same message: that the monthly pay doesn't give a full picture of "actual salary", the actual compensation of the effort a person puts into his job, it ignores the "hidden cost" such as free OT. This what I want to tell in this thread, by using examples and maths.

Unfortunately many has made and continued to make unwarranted remarks, wild assertions to my original post. I am not interested in winning this type of argument, or entertaining trolls.

P/S the SAF example is flawed as I have pointed out earlier. The person can't monetize his free time while he is on duty.

Tuition teacher is a good example to illustrate. Why did you say it's ridiculous? Back then when I just graduated, it was economical downturn due to SARS. I know a friend who taught JC students at $100+/hr, and he took as many as his timetable allows after he got referrals from parents. The key here is again monetizing free time. If you can only take 1 student, you are not monetizing it.

[kakarukeys]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Somebody also pointed out earlier your examples are all missing the building up of career potential. You are just taking present salary divide by hours, a lot of people understand that by hour their pay is low, but are sticking around because of the desire to build up their CV which will enable to get much higher pay in the future compared to a 9-5 job in a SME. Junior accountants/auditors in big4 is a good example.

.

As I have replied to the gentleman who brought this up. In the case where the person enjoys doing free work, or attributes a value to it. Then my methodology is not applicable. I did not claim my methodology is applicable in all cases.

You shouldn't be comparing salaries like that. You might be right to count your salary and find it to be higher than your friends salary. But the thing is, you are NOT paid by hour. Say you wanted to earn an equal salary as your friend. You can choose to work OT for as many hours as you like but you will not have a rise in your pay.

Based on the pay/hour you are definitely better off but when it comes to how much compensation you can get with your current position, you will never be on par unless of course you get a promotion or pay rise, but thats out of context.

You talk about monetizing your free time to "Earn more". Sure you could do that. But would you actually do it? Would you enjoy doing it? (since you said its about being happy) If you enjoy working an extra job that pays more (by hour) than your current job, you might as well quit your current job and work full time on that. If the extra job pays less, you wouldn't want to do it because you would think that for working more, you should be at least getting the same pay as what you would get in your current job.

Just to add on. If you include bonuses, which would have nothing to do with hours worked, it would definitely affect the results. There are companies or jobs that have relatively lower lower compensations but their eoy bonus is FAT.

In short, he felt insulted by friend for laughing at his pathetic pay (since friend who makes only $3.3k can laugh at him, he's most likely making <2.5k)

Proceed to say that pay should be looked at work done per hour and somehow manage to convince himself his <2.5k pay in some SME is actually not bad.

If he is drawing 25k & friend is drawing 33k monthly, I can still accept the logic because of diminishing returns of money. But seriously below 2.5k!?!?!? Sorry, no matter what "angle" you look at it, it's a pathetic sum with a dead end career in a SME.

If you look at the kind of frivolous analysis he had made, it is no wonder that he is working in a SME and earning less than 3K. I do agree with you that his ego is hurting after his friend made a jibe regarding his lower salary. This forum is possibly his only outlet to vent his indignation and feeling of unjust. To rub salt to his wound, his friend is a lady (as mentioned by him). He also wrote that he graduated during the SARS outbreak, which was nearly a decade ago. We can then infer that he has been working for as many as 10 years already. Just hope that he is able to survive in our increasingly competitive society with escalating cost of living.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In short, he felt insulted by friend for laughing at his pathetic pay (since friend who makes only $3.3k can laugh at him, he's most likely making <2.5k)

Proceed to say that pay should be looked at work done per hour and somehow manage to convince himself his <2.5k pay in some SME is actually not bad.

If he is drawing 25k & friend is drawing 33k monthly, I can still accept the logic because of diminishing returns of money. But seriously below 2.5k!?!?!? Sorry, no matter what "angle" you look at it, it's a pathetic sum with a dead end career in a SME.

[kakarukeys]

Your speculations are all wrong, my motive of posting, the salary figures, what's between me and my friend. And you are also sexist.

My motive is to show my friend is actually underpaid by her employer because she did not factor in hidden costs into her salary calculation. But this example is still better:

Originally Posted by kakarukeys

Two employees, one works 9-5, always knocks off on time, one is made to do overtime every day and always comes back on weekends. Suppose the figures on their monthly pay slips are the same. Are they compensated equally by their employers?

No. They are not. One is obviously underpaid than the other. I don't know why some people here can't understand this simple obvious fact.

[lmaohaha]

based on ts logic, i suppose social escorts or whores earn the most? close to zero effort as well.