Cornell vs Cambridge vs SMU

Originally Posted by Unregistered

knowledge fromSMU / Cornell / Cambridge... will be good...

just to share some experience with you on employment after graduation (as i believe you keen on the finance/banking sector) ... i come from a 2nd tier uni (Ozzie) with a Maths degree... 2002- applied for a role in Macquarie Bank (not the best pay master).., but they do pay for 5 digits pay for freshie... I manage to out-perform many of the grads from ivy uni.. to get that first job.... (Of course, you need good results whichever uni you are studying in..). ... the point is, general undergrad degree like (Econs, Maths, Fin, Arts) from the Ivy and less Uni.. are not that different to major corporations unless they are into into re-search..field..

..studying abroad or even working abroad is about experiencing the cultures and understand how people work in different countries. (n pls don't just mixed with Asian only..) ... whatever we can say greatness about our beloved 'SG'.. remember other countries has its merits ....

8 yrs past... i still enjoy meeting people, travelling and doing consultancy...



good luck to your study...i can say it is still best 4 years of my life...




utimately

this is actually really bad advice. when hiring, large firms will definitely use GPA and university brand name as a first filter. it goes without saying that your progression depends on your performance, but degree name definitely makes a difference to getting the job in the first place.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

this is actually really bad advice. when hiring, large firms will definitely use GPA and university brand name as a first filter. it goes without saying that your progression depends on your performance, but degree name definitely makes a difference to getting the job in the first place.

I don't see his post as an "advice" so how can it be "bad"? He is not advising people for or against going to a brand name university vis-a-vis his "2nd tier uni (Ozzie)" university. He is just sharing his personal experience.

Of course, for every banking job taken up by a grad from "a 2nd tier uni (Ozzie)", there is one fewer available to those from branded universities. So in a sense that is "bad", depending on whose perspective.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't see his post as an "advice" so how can it be "bad"? He is not advising people for or against going to a brand name university vis-a-vis his "2nd tier uni (Ozzie)" university. He is just sharing his personal experience.

Of course, for every banking job taken up by a grad from "a 2nd tier uni (Ozzie)", there is one fewer available to those from branded universities. So in a sense that is "bad", depending on whose perspective.

My goodness. You must be on drugs. I think we all know who has more to worry about, on balance.

Macquarie has a psychometric test. For a fresh grad you just have to do well in it. They don't recruit from top schools.

Chanced upon this thread and read your reply. Very useful and definitely inspiring, especially the last para on going for what we think we deserve.

Would you be able to elaborate more on the job you've landed and how it is so far? For someone who has similar educational background as you (engg, science grad from top US/UK uni), who has just completed the bond, would the companies like yours view them any less than a fresh grad? =( What are some of the minuses for these group of people?

Thanks and regards.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No problem! Glad to help. I apologize for the confusion - I grew up in the US and now starting work locally in Singapore.



The US is a big place, so let me narrow it down to what I can directly comment on. I grew up in southern California and went to university in northern California by San Francisco / Bay Area. In short, life there is great - the weather, laid back environment, very cheap housing/cars, good pay, etc. The sole reason I came back (at the time) was to serve my National Service obligations (my parents had found a loophole to allow me to attend and complete my education first), and I had every intention of going back to the US after getting through the obstacle that is NS. However I decided to stay in Singapore due to many factors: my family (nuclear & extended) is here; tax here is uber low (also no capital gains!); my friends are great and the nightlife is fantastic; and I figured I'd try something new (most people stereotype Americans as only knowing America with no international exposure). On top of that, I saw opportunity in Singapore. In terms of pure career / earning potential, I feel that at the end-game, Singapore can match or even beat the US (tax is only a small factor in this belief). The opportunities are there, but most people aren't willing to go after it -- more on this later.



Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, which is limited to growing up in southern California and working in the San Francisco / Bay Area. Some other areas (e.g. deep south) can be very different (e.g. much more racist). For me, I didn't find being an asian any hinderance at all to my social or work life. Americans seem to discriminate on anything as long as they have something to discriminate against, mostly if you are different or an outsider. If you are fat, they'll make fun of your weight; if you are ugly, they'll make fun of your looks; if you have no social skills, they'll call you a loser. It's not really based on race, but if people are targeting you due to other reasons, your race will become a factor. Up to high school, this will be the case. But in university the people are smarter, more accepting, and more exposed to international talent. I'll have to admit that this is purely my own personal view - some of my older siblings that were raised in Singapore felt there was discrimination; perhaps I had different experiences since I was raised in the US. Regardless, I've seen people of every race achieve tremendous social success, and even as an Asian I had no problem doing the same.

As for work, it was really too easy to find a job. I have to qualify myself here - I studied Electrical Engineering & Computer Science at a top engineering school located right in/next to Silicon Valley (the tech hub of the world, basically) so it was pretty ideal (this is in no way a coincidence - research your combination of school / major / location). Though I never applied to any jobs, senior year I literally had companies calling/emailing/Facebooking me multiple times a month and sometimes week, and all of my friends who wanted to find jobs were able to - there are plenty of opportunities to network, go to career fairs, join clubs and/or resume books, etc at any school you go to.

I'll end with an explanation of my earlier claim that SG can easily rival/beat the US in terms of job prospects and opportunities, but many locals aren't willing to go for it. In the US my starting pay was $100,000 (USD) per year as a fresh-grad working at a tech startup at which I was an early employee (my best friend and colleague had a matching offer at another big established tech firm, though he decided to join with me). I came back to Singapore to do NS (and was really upset over it at first) but as I mentioned, decided to stay and work in Singapore. I've been on the job hunt for 3 months since ORD and have gotten 4 offers at various financial institutes, all of which had increased in pay -- the first was $1.5k (plus profit share, as a prop trader), second was $3k (plus commission, sales position), third was an analyst position at $4k at a major global bank. I was really on the verge of accepting but decided to decline to pursue another position at a different global financial institute that I felt was more attractive -- it was ridiculously risky as I had only gone through the first (of 7) interviews at the time I had to decide. I got my offer yesterday at $6k + performance bonus (much more than I was prepared to accept. Comparable to US $100k after taxes + CPF etc) and signed the contracts today. I cite this example because I feel that most of the people I meet here have a strong sense of what they are entitled to, and many times that actually limits them (e.g. most people wouldn't dare to turn down the concrete offer of $4k as a fresh grad that recently ORD, or try for a $6k starting salary). My opinion is, if you are confident in your abilities and can take the risk, go for what you feel you are truly worth. I really feel bad for my friends that I meet in army that feel they can only get a certain salary/job/etc because they only went to some poly/jc/uni. Don't feel too limited or tied down by your current qualifications or past!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Chanced upon this thread and read your reply. Very useful and definitely inspiring, especially the last para on going for what we think we deserve.

Glad you found it of help! I really feel that there is tons of opportunity here if you are willing to seek it out, and this is coming from someone who truly despised the idea of coming back less than 3 years ago.. Especially to big banks, paying a few thousand dollars more a month is really nothing to get someone they REALLY want/need. It's just that those "hire at all costs" people are too shy to ask for salaries substantially higher than market rate, while almost any employer would want to pay as little as possible to hire the person they want (e.g. give a slight / expected increase over last-drawn or market rate).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Would you be able to elaborate more on the job you've landed and how it is so far? For someone who has similar educational background as you (engg, science grad from top US/UK uni), who has just completed the bond, would the companies like yours view them any less than a fresh grad? =( What are some of the minuses for these group of people?

Thanks and regards.

I'd be happy to give details on the job (save for identifying information of the actual company / position), however I've yet to start working so I'm unable to comment on how it is so far (soon though!). I predict it will be quite fun though, given the scope of the job, inherent exposure to the entire company, and the nice people (low stress and regular working hours is a plus as well). It is an Analyst position at a top global investment manager, however I do NOT consider it a "front-office" role (a term I feel some people are overly obsessed about). I won't be doing sales, trading, research, or anything "glamorous", but I'll be able to do what I truly love, get great exposure to all the higher-ups, learn tremendous amounts, and have excessive flexibility on how I go about my day to day responsibilities. Ermm I don't really know what else to add as the group (within the company) is quite new and my exact responsibilities aren't very defined yet.

I'm not sure exactly what type of "bond" you are referring to, perhaps a scholarship bond from a company / gov't / SAF / NS? Regardless, whether or not you are viewed as more/equal/lower value compared to a fresh grad really depends how you portray yourself in your cover letter and interview(s). For example, if I had in any way conveyed that the last 2 years of my life spent in National Service was a waste of time (even not mentioning it at all would imply that you didn't learn/achieve anything worth noting), then yes, I would likely be considered lesser/equal to a fresh grad. Why? Because I didn't do anything in my time since graduation (e.g. I'm equal to a fresh grad, but older), and on top of that it may show a lack of effort / motivation / drive / whatever (e.g. I'm lesser than a fresh grad). This would be a 'minus' for said group of people, however you can definitely turn that 'minus' into a 'plus' if you approach the situation correctly.

The key to beating out the 'true' fresh grads is to use the time since graduation to your advantage. Show that regardless of what you did - compulsory or not - you had the drive and pasion to excel at it and that the lessons learnt and experience gained is of direct, tangible value to the company and totally relevant to the specific job you are applying for. Though your actual opinion of the time may not be as esteemed, there will certainly be aspects of it that you can highlight and spin to your advantage. NEVER, EVER complain about past experiences or say that compulsory service (e.g. bonds, obligations) was a waste of time or negative experience. Basically, find the value of whatever you were doing since graduation, and convey it in a manner such that they believe that these experiences are what makes you more valuable than a fresh grad. You can even be as blatant as saying stuff like "... in hindsight, I'm actually quite glad that I had to serve <insert your bond/whatever here> as I was able to learn/experience <insert lessons here>, which is something that is not taught in school."

I'll end by reiterating that your school / experience / resume / etc will only get you so far (e.g. an interview). It's really up to you how well you sell yourself in order to beat out other candidates to earn that job offer and get a higher pay.

Remember: don't just talk about how awesome you are, talk about how awesome you are for the SPECIFIC JOB AND COMPANY and back it up with lots and lots of stories and examples.

All the best and good luck!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Glad you found it of help! I really feel that there is tons of opportunity here if you are willing to seek it out, and this is coming from someone who truly despised the idea of coming back less than 3 years ago.. Especially to big banks, paying a few thousand dollars more a month is really nothing to get someone they REALLY want/need. It's just that those "hire at all costs" people are too shy to ask for salaries substantially higher than market rate, while almost any employer would want to pay as little as possible to hire the person they want (e.g. give a slight / expected increase over last-drawn or market rate).



I'd be happy to give details on the job (save for identifying information of the actual company / position), however I've yet to start working so I'm unable to comment on how it is so far (soon though!). I predict it will be quite fun though, given the scope of the job, inherent exposure to the entire company, and the nice people (low stress and regular working hours is a plus as well). It is an Analyst position at a top global investment manager, however I do NOT consider it a "front-office" role (a term I feel some people are overly obsessed about). I won't be doing sales, trading, research, or anything "glamorous", but I'll be able to do what I truly love, get great exposure to all the higher-ups, learn tremendous amounts, and have excessive flexibility on how I go about my day to day responsibilities. Ermm I don't really know what else to add as the group (within the company) is quite new and my exact responsibilities aren't very defined yet.

I'm not sure exactly what type of "bond" you are referring to, perhaps a scholarship bond from a company / gov't / SAF / NS? Regardless, whether or not you are viewed as more/equal/lower value compared to a fresh grad really depends how you portray yourself in your cover letter and interview(s). For example, if I had in any way conveyed that the last 2 years of my life spent in National Service was a waste of time (even not mentioning it at all would imply that you didn't learn/achieve anything worth noting), then yes, I would likely be considered lesser/equal to a fresh grad. Why? Because I didn't do anything in my time since graduation (e.g. I'm equal to a fresh grad, but older), and on top of that it may show a lack of effort / motivation / drive / whatever (e.g. I'm lesser than a fresh grad). This would be a 'minus' for said group of people, however you can definitely turn that 'minus' into a 'plus' if you approach the situation correctly.

The key to beating out the 'true' fresh grads is to use the time since graduation to your advantage. Show that regardless of what you did - compulsory or not - you had the drive and pasion to excel at it and that the lessons learnt and experience gained is of direct, tangible value to the company and totally relevant to the specific job you are applying for. Though your actual opinion of the time may not be as esteemed, there will certainly be aspects of it that you can highlight and spin to your advantage. NEVER, EVER complain about past experiences or say that compulsory service (e.g. bonds, obligations) was a waste of time or negative experience. Basically, find the value of whatever you were doing since graduation, and convey it in a manner such that they believe that these experiences are what makes you more valuable than a fresh grad. You can even be as blatant as saying stuff like "... in hindsight, I'm actually quite glad that I had to serve <insert your bond/whatever here> as I was able to learn/experience <insert lessons here>, which is something that is not taught in school."

I'll end by reiterating that your school / experience / resume / etc will only get you so far (e.g. an interview). It's really up to you how well you sell yourself in order to beat out other candidates to earn that job offer and get a higher pay.

Remember: don't just talk about how awesome you are, talk about how awesome you are for the SPECIFIC JOB AND COMPANY and back it up with lots and lots of stories and examples.

All the best and good luck!

Thanks again for sharing your advice!
Sadly, it's 2 yrs NS plus 6 yr bond period for me... whereas employers may be ok with your 2 yrs since graduation, for me, they may have to think twice/thrice. Read somewhere in another thread that they don't employ ppl who have too many yrs of work exp. Will take your advice - of turning that into a positive learning exp - in mind, but not sure if employers will think in the same way.
Cheers!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks again for sharing your advice!
Sadly, it's 2 yrs NS plus 6 yr bond period for me... whereas employers may be ok with your 2 yrs since graduation, for me, they may have to think twice/thrice. Read somewhere in another thread that they don't employ ppl who have too many yrs of work exp. Will take your advice - of turning that into a positive learning exp - in mind, but not sure if employers will think in the same way.
Cheers!

if you're willing to tough it out and scrimp for a few years, it's actually possible to break halfway. keep your eye on the long term goal.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No problem! Glad to help. I apologize for the confusion - I grew up in the US and now starting work locally in Singapore.



The US is a big place, so let me narrow it down to what I can directly comment on. I grew up in southern California and went to university in northern California by San Francisco / Bay Area. In short, life there is great - the weather, laid back environment, very cheap housing/cars, good pay, etc. The sole reason I came back (at the time) was to serve my National Service obligations (my parents had found a loophole to allow me to attend and complete my education first), and I had every intention of going back to the US after getting through the obstacle that is NS. However I decided to stay in Singapore due to many factors: my family (nuclear & extended) is here; tax here is uber low (also no capital gains!); my friends are great and the nightlife is fantastic; and I figured I'd try something new (most people stereotype Americans as only knowing America with no international exposure). On top of that, I saw opportunity in Singapore. In terms of pure career / earning potential, I feel that at the end-game, Singapore can match or even beat the US (tax is only a small factor in this belief). The opportunities are there, but most people aren't willing to go after it -- more on this later.



Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, which is limited to growing up in southern California and working in the San Francisco / Bay Area. Some other areas (e.g. deep south) can be very different (e.g. much more racist). For me, I didn't find being an asian any hinderance at all to my social or work life. Americans seem to discriminate on anything as long as they have something to discriminate against, mostly if you are different or an outsider. If you are fat, they'll make fun of your weight; if you are ugly, they'll make fun of your looks; if you have no social skills, they'll call you a loser. It's not really based on race, but if people are targeting you due to other reasons, your race will become a factor. Up to high school, this will be the case. But in university the people are smarter, more accepting, and more exposed to international talent. I'll have to admit that this is purely my own personal view - some of my older siblings that were raised in Singapore felt there was discrimination; perhaps I had different experiences since I was raised in the US. Regardless, I've seen people of every race achieve tremendous social success, and even as an Asian I had no problem doing the same.

As for work, it was really too easy to find a job. I have to qualify myself here - I studied Electrical Engineering & Computer Science at a top engineering school located right in/next to Silicon Valley (the tech hub of the world, basically) so it was pretty ideal (this is in no way a coincidence - research your combination of school / major / location). Though I never applied to any jobs, senior year I literally had companies calling/emailing/Facebooking me multiple times a month and sometimes week, and all of my friends who wanted to find jobs were able to - there are plenty of opportunities to network, go to career fairs, join clubs and/or resume books, etc at any school you go to.

I'll end with an explanation of my earlier claim that SG can easily rival/beat the US in terms of job prospects and opportunities, but many locals aren't willing to go for it. In the US my starting pay was $100,000 (USD) per year as a fresh-grad working at a tech startup at which I was an early employee (my best friend and colleague had a matching offer at another big established tech firm, though he decided to join with me). I came back to Singapore to do NS (and was really upset over it at first) but as I mentioned, decided to stay and work in Singapore. I've been on the job hunt for 3 months since ORD and have gotten 4 offers at various financial institutes, all of which had increased in pay -- the first was $1.5k (plus profit share, as a prop trader), second was $3k (plus commission, sales position), third was an analyst position at $4k at a major global bank. I was really on the verge of accepting but decided to decline to pursue another position at a different global financial institute that I felt was more attractive -- it was ridiculously risky as I had only gone through the first (of 7) interviews at the time I had to decide. I got my offer yesterday at $6k + performance bonus (much more than I was prepared to accept. Comparable to US $100k after taxes + CPF etc) and signed the contracts today. I cite this example because I feel that most of the people I meet here have a strong sense of what they are entitled to, and many times that actually limits them (e.g. most people wouldn't dare to turn down the concrete offer of $4k as a fresh grad that recently ORD, or try for a $6k starting salary). My opinion is, if you are confident in your abilities and can take the risk, go for what you feel you are truly worth. I really feel bad for my friends that I meet in army that feel they can only get a certain salary/job/etc because they only went to some poly/jc/uni. Don't feel too limited or tied down by your current qualifications or past!

u sure u wont regret the 100k fresh grad pay? i dont get what u mean by the 6k pay here is comparable to the ones u got back there. did u even consider the career progression? ur interest? i feel u have a greater interest in science and tech, yet now u seem to be working in a financial institution instead.

i think it is definitely more satisfying to work at a startup, have a large part to play in ur startup growth, earn a high starting pay,enjoy stock options and ultimately might even become a co-owner. imo, u seem to have lost one of the biggest opportunity in ur life due to ns.

no point trying to convince people that working in singapore is better than the us. especially for R&D, which is almost non existent in singapore. in singapore here, the sci and engineering grad dont have people headhunting them like the way u said it, and some of the first class honours student even have to sign on the army for a more stable job. the silicon valley is definitely the place to be if u want to be at the forefront of sci and tech.

But how can we get a job in silicon valley, or some other places for that matter?