Cornell vs Cambridge vs SMU

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't know about you, but I'll rather earn USD100K/yr and live in Berkeley in an apartment overlooking SFO Bay and take valley girls for dates in my USD20K Chevy Camaro than work in Singapore for $6K/mo, live in my parent's dank HDB flat and date on the bus!

You're assuming that everyone who returns back to Sg lives in a hdb with their parents and does not own a car (many of those I know who return are in fact pretty well off). If it came down to an engineering position at 100k USD/year in a start-up firm and a finance position in BB at $6k SGD/month. I don't think its as clear cut as you make it out to be. The pay/career progression may even out the initial "loss" in salary had you taken the SG position. To each his own, perhaps the earlier poster can add his/her views.

Originally Posted by anoldanalyst

Global Markets in Singapore also does pretty well. One fixed income chap I know drives a $1.5m Murcie LP640 and he just smokes in it and trashes it - treats it like a Hyundai. Just hang around the One Raffles Quay carpark in the morning and you will see it.

Interesting, what are you referring to by Global Markets? Is it the ECM/DCM that raises IPOs and bonds in investment banks? What role does the guy in question do? Thanks!!

[California]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

To Unregistered Yesterday, 10:17 PM ,

My first time posting even though I've been following this forum for a while, just some thoughts... Admittedly, I was one of the doubtful ones when you mentioned $100k USD (heh that almost gives fresh grad bankers a run for their money, especially bcz of the crisis) but now that you've clarified, it seems more plausible. I did an engineering bachelors and subsequently masters in the US (top ~3-5 USnews&reports) and I do regret not pursuing a CS degree (what more in California), as it was a lot difficult to find a good job in recent years outside of this industry (my CS friends on the other way were receiving offers left, right and center, even with mediocre results, by my standards that is). I'm not sure if I would say $100k USD is equivalent to $6k/month SGD in Sg. Perhaps you guys pay ridiculous taxes in Cali (tax capital in the US lol) but in most other places aside from the madness that goes on in NY/Chicago/Boston, $100k USD would likely be worth more compared to $6k/month SGD. I admit I've not done an extensive investigation into this, just a quick ballpark figure (perhaps I might do one and see what I come up with).

I finally got around to registering so I'll post from this account from now on to avoid confusion. Sorry if I misled anyone into thinking that $100k USD is by any means a common or 'easy' to get starting pay, even in the Silicon Valley as a computer scientist. With startups, it's even more rare, unless the company REALLY needs you or you have considerable bargaining power (e.g. prior commitments). Anyways, my claim that SGD $6k is about $100k USD is based on 40% US tax (~25% federal, ~10% California state tax, and social security / medisave on top of that) vs like ~3% tax here (and adding in CPF and employer contribution) -- both will come to roughly $60k USD. I guess that is kinda 'cheating', but the main point I was trying to drive was that the gap isn't as big as it may seem at a glance. Keep in mind, the more you make the more tax affects you so in the long run it's not a bad deal if you can get a good job here.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My advice would also be to stay in the US if you intend to pursue an engineering field. This I am most certainly sure of. Typically, most companies will offer at least $60k USD base for bachelors and $75k USD base for masters. There is almost no way for any engineering company to match that in SG, not to mention career prospects and the type of "cutting edge" work you'll be doing. When evaluating your offer, be very sure to analyze the state taxes that you will be liable for. It can vary *significantly* between states. Another factor, would be living costs which is needless to say.

At this point, since returning to Sg, I've pretty much given up on engineering in Sg (none of the engineering related MNCs want to even talk to me), so I'm not about cast any stones at others who have gone down this path into finance/consulting sectors, being equally guilty myself.

I agree with you on pretty much everything that you said. Definitely consider the taxes and cost of living in the city you get an offer, as it can quickly negate and possibly even overshadow the premium that you'll get paid to work there. Unfortunately, as positive as I am, I have to agree with your thoughts on engineering in Singapore as well. My decision to stay contingent on my going into the financial sector, if I were to have stuck with engineering, there is no doubt I'd be writing this post from Silicon Valley. It's not just about pay, but also the type of work that you'd be given and the respect that you'd garner as a person (imagine a twenty-something year old tech CEO in Singapore.. not many people would take him seriously, IMHO).

[California]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think someone proved earlier using an internet calculator that NO WAY is $6K in Singapore equivalent to USD100K so don't be too believing. If the guy really earned USD100K, he is hurting now.... taking the bus and living in HDB.

See my previous post on the calculations. Again, the calculations I gave are rough (though I did do extensive research when I was actually making the decisions), but in the end it's still not off by much, and it'll only get better as your salary gets higher. As for your latter statement, please refer to my response below.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't know about you, but I'll rather earn USD100K/yr and live in Berkeley in an apartment overlooking SFO Bay and take valley girls for dates in my USD20K Chevy Camaro than work in Singapore for $6K/mo, live in my parent's dank HDB flat and date on the bus!

I agree that on the surface this really seems like a no-brainer comparison, but once you've been to both places it gets more complicated. I'll speak from my personal situation, as that is what I am able to give a knowledgable opinion of. Feel free to ignore whatever you feel is inapplicable.

Living in the SF / Bay Area, I'd be paying $1.2-$1.5k a month in rent for a decent apartment. This is a pretty decent amount and is money that I'm not going to get a cent of back (as opposed to buying a house and paying installments, which would be an investment). If you speak to people in the area, most would tell you that they don't want a car even if they can easily afford one -- driving is such a pain and parking is even worse. To top of off, crime is quite an issue and I've had more than a few friends car's broken into or vandalized. Not fun. Even if you get to get a sweet car for relatively very cheap, it's not that big of a deal because everyone can afford it. I guess California girls are quite good, but IMHO if you go to the right places then Singapore can compare.

First off, I want to ask why you guys seem to assume that I take public transport and live in an HDB? Not to look down on people who do, it's perfectly alright; however, I don't know many people in those situations that would consider spending the amount required to send their kids to a reputable US university (unless they are bonded, which I've established I am not). I wish everyone could afford to give their children the best (don't assume I'm saying the US is the best), but sadly the truth is that life is not so simple. Nonetheless, as with the job situation, I feel that Singapore is a great place to be socially as well, if you are in the right position to take advantage of it. Compare to the US where cars are cheap and are viewed as a mode of transportation rather than a symbol of status -- it's not a big deal cause everyone can afford it. Here, when we drive around in expensive luxury cars during our early-mid-late 20's, you feel special. When you go back to your car after a nice meal, you're greeting with people taking pictures of your car as opposed to smashed windows or stolen rims. Plus, the nightlife and clubbing scene here is so tight-nit that if you're in the right crowd, you're going to be a VVIP anywhere you go. That, on top of your car, will pull a lot of attention from girls that can definitely rival those in California (but let's not go into that -- women here are another longgg debate that I don't feel like touching on). I'm not saying being a prestige whore is something to be proud of, but that's how it is here, and some people may enjoy it. In the end, in the US if you are lucky you can be a stud at a few nightspots and have a handful of people know you. But in Singapore, it's like you're on top of the world (ok not world, but country). Big fish in a huge pond or big fish in a small pond I guess~


Again, I want to reiterate that all of the experiences and opinions I've given, on jobs and especially with regards to the social life, are not applicable to everyone. I've always qualified my claims with the caveat that it applies to people with elite achievements / positions (e.g. "if you are a top performer", "if you are confident in excelling", etc). For the average person that wants to live a normal life, work a normal job, and doesn't care about making millions or feeling like a rockstar, you would get the best bang for your buck / effort in the US. But for the privileged few who want all that glitters and more, and have/think they have what it takes to make it, Singapore is a pretty sweet place to be.

I'm studying in America right now and have many local friends. you really do NOT sound like you grew up in America at all. it sounds like parochial Singaporean English.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm studying in America right now and have many local friends. you really do NOT sound like you grew up in America at all. it sounds like parochial Singaporean English.

to add: the thing is, you said you grew up in America. You should sound more American than Singaporean, even after NS. I can't pull off a convincing American English conversation even if I tried my hardest.

[California]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

to add: the thing is, you said you grew up in America. You should sound more American than Singaporean, even after NS. I can't pull off a convincing American English conversation even if I tried my hardest.

I'd like the point out that people type very different than they speak, especially without the audible accent to really drive it home, and we aren't writing proper essays but conversing casually on the internet. Anyways, it's much harder to know the exact words and their locations to make a sentence proper and complete, whereas after being immersed in this society it is really quite easy to drop a few words to sound local (in terms of sentence composition, not accent). That being said, I think the validity of the experiences that I've given of the US speaks much louder than an analysis of what words I choose to use.

Regardless, whether or not I am from the US is not the point. The point I've been trying to push all along is that Singapore is not such a terrible place to be (as many people make it out to be). Especially so if you are of the background or ambition that I've been focusing on. I don't get it... is the thought that this country may be a good place for some people really such an awful claim that people are looking to somehow prove that I'm a hoax?

It's exactly the casual conversation I'm referring to. You sound more like a Singaporean speaking casually than an American. Not discounting what you wrote, but this is very interesting.

[California]

By the way, some food for thought to all those who are really trying so hard to find holes in my story (not talking about those sincerely curious - 'just wondering, how can $100k USD/year compare to $6k SGD/mo? are taxes really high or what?" - but rather those that aggressively accuse - 'YOU ARE A LOCAL YOU LOSER AND THUS YOUR CLAIMS ARE RIDICULOUS'): does your stance not prove my point? Given an opinion that Singapore may actually be a place with some decent opportunities (again, for some people, you find it such a ludicrous claim that you fervently protest and find ways to disprove it (though most focus on disproving the story and not the claims). In short, these people don't think it's a reasonable claim, but rather that the opportunities here suck. This leaves us will less people that are willing to even acknowledge the existence of such opportunities, much less actively seek out and exploit the opportunities that do exist, which in turn gives a better chance to those willing to believe in themselves and that they can achieve success regardless of location. The end result? Better opportunities for some.

I really can't ask for better proof than from the nay-sayers...

You wanna say I didn't make $100k USD? Sure thing. Let's say I made much less. This means my current pay in Singapore is even better relative to my US salary.

I didn't grow up in the US? Believe what you want. If I'm completely Singaporean, then it really speaks volumes that you don't even need someone with an 'outside view' to see the opportunities that are available here.

It's crazy to think that Singapore is a good place to work? Of course it is! Please, by all means, tell everyone you know that there is no opportunity and that they should stay with / accept any average or 'market rate' jobs that they can get, and not to strive for great promotions or career advancement opportunities -- after all, they don't exist, right? You'll can save them the effort and disappointment of chasing a 'pipe-dream', while the rest of us can enjoy the lack of competition

Caliornia - welcome to the Singapore Internet community, a place full of cynics and skeptics who are yes-boss cowards by day and virtual heroes by night.