Really that bad for engineers?

my friend say engineer yearly increment 10%, possible?

[aspenx]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

my friend say engineer yearly increment 10%, possible?

Possible but highly unlikely......

Originally Posted by Unregistered

my friend say engineer yearly increment 10%, possible?

It is only possible if you jump ship from time to time to have an average of 10% increment.

[aplover]

let me share my story.

I enjoyed physics and maths in school and wanted to become an engineer like my dad who was a civil engineer with HDB then. I did well in A'levels and got a place in NUS EEE to start during 2003.

During my time in NS 2001-2003, my dad told me to change my course of study as the prospects are getting dimmer and bad for Engineers. Even my dad was a head of division, drawing 5 figure salary said his time was coming soon. This was just before the time of HDB breaking up and huge retrenchment in PSA and HDB (not sure how many of you remember this). My dad mentioned that there were just too many imports coming in then. That it was getting easier to replace senior high cost engineers with junior cheap engineers. Problem with engineering is regardless of whatever line, you will always be seen as a cost and you will be a problem unless you go into project management or management position. Even in a management position, a company needs much fewer managers to manage a larger team of cheaper engineers. So what does this mean for the high cost senior engineers? Retrenchment exercise comes along and poof these guys will go. And mind you, economic cycles are getting tighter and more volatile. Meaning we will experience a downturn more frequently every 3-4 yrs potentially which increases the chances of cost trimming exercise to happen.

After I heard about this regularly, I decided halfway to switch to local uni busienss school and am glad i made the switch.

The fact of the matter is I love physics and maths. In fact if i was overseas in Western country, i would study art and do something for my career that involves using my hands which would still be paid respectably not like the situation in Singapore and Asia in general. But in Singapore, we have to be realistic and do jobs that have high chance of economic growth and success.

For all the merits and importance of engineering, engineering is a cost, and you get riskier and costlier as you gain seniority. Your value doesn't grow as much as the cost factor. As long as companies continue to import cheap FT engineers who can do similar jobs as our locals (although yes the communication skills are lower in general), engineer's wages in general will stay depressed.

Do think carefully...

[aspenx]

Originally Posted by aplover

Problem with engineering is regardless of whatever line, you will always be seen as a cost and you will be a problem unless you go into project management or management position. Even in a management position, a company needs much fewer managers to manage a larger team of cheaper engineers.

I concur with you.

I started my career with project management and am still at it. One thing to note is that because your background is still as an engineer, you will likely end up doing alot of the work yourself and/or accountable for checking others even though you're given the PM role of a project.

It just gets busier and busier for me with my pay not increasing at quite the same pace...

However, pay and value of an engineer really depends on the company and your skills. There are those really talented, experienced and well-paid engineers out there in positions and companies that want them around.

Nothing comes easily in the working world, anyways.

Can't decide whether you want to be an engineer or remain as one? Or mulling the decision to study finance or engineering, or even considering a mid career change?

Promise yourself you will do the below to ascertain your choice.

1. During 5pm to 630pm, take the mrt to Joo Koon station and wait at the control station to observe the crowd of workers, both foreign and locals. Take note of their dressing and attire, their mannerisms as they speak, the way they carry themselves.

2. On another day, during 5pm to 630pm , take the mrt to tanjong pagar or raffles place and wait at the control station to observe the crowd of workers , both foreign and locals. Take note especially of the hot OLs in their office dressing and attire , the mannerisms of the other workers as they speak , the way they carry themselves.

3. Choose. Having done the above , know the similar impact it will have on your daily work life, your appearance in carrying yourself , your needs and wants changing as you desire to emulate those around you, if you decide that engineer vs finance career path.

What I am saying is that your quality of life in all facets will mirror closely with the people or colleagues you work with, socialize with, have meetings with and become good friends with. Take a deep breath , step forward and plunge. For better or for worse is anybody's guess , but chances are it will always be in sync with your surrounding environment.

yours sincerely
ex engineer

Almost fell off my seat reading this. You one big joker.

Most good engineers, after a short few years on the job would be driving their own cars. You wont see them at either MRT station.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Can't decide whether you want to be an engineer or remain as one? Or mulling the decision to study finance or engineering, or even considering a mid career change?

Promise yourself you will do the below to ascertain your choice.

1. During 5pm to 630pm, take the mrt to Joo Koon station and wait at the control station to observe the crowd of workers, both foreign and locals. Take note of their dressing and attire, their mannerisms as they speak, the way they carry themselves.

2. On another day, during 5pm to 630pm , take the mrt to tanjong pagar or raffles place and wait at the control station to observe the crowd of workers , both foreign and locals. Take note especially of the hot OLs in their office dressing and attire , the mannerisms of the other workers as they speak , the way they carry themselves.

3. Choose. Having done the above , know the similar impact it will have on your daily work life, your appearance in carrying yourself , your needs and wants changing as you desire to emulate those around you, if you decide that engineer vs finance career path.

What I am saying is that your quality of life in all facets will mirror closely with the people or colleagues you work with, socialize with, have meetings with and become good friends with. Take a deep breath , step forward and plunge. For better or for worse is anybody's guess , but chances are it will always be in sync with your surrounding environment.

yours sincerely
ex engineer

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Almost fell off my seat reading this. You one big joker.

Most good engineers, after a short few years on the job would be driving their own cars. You wont see them at either MRT station.

Don't be stubborn. A lot of engineers regrets choosing the engineering field. They tend to be overworked and underpaid. They also have less visibility with the senior management because they are too technical.

Whoa, to be fair, engineers nowadays are churned out by the thousands by both local and overseas Unis. Some are sponsored by prospective employers and others on their own steam. Some graduate from top ranked Unis and some from not-so prestigious Unis.

So there is a wide spectrum of capabilities out there. Some will do well becoming technical managers (managerial track) while some will develop along the technical career ladder. As in many other professions, there will be the non performers.

I cannot comment on how engineers perform in the private sector as the employers / companies are way too varied - from the very established companies like IBM, HP to very small SMEs. But in the Civil Service and Defense Industry side, engineers are paid quite well. Good honours fresh grads joining the CS / Military can expect up to $4K pm. Their careers some more quite stable with many opportunities for professional training and upgrade. Understand they are even given increments for advanced degrees! Many of the bosses are themselves engineers so there is less of an issue about being too technical with the bosses.

Actually the only issue with the CS/Military/Defense industry is that they are choosy tending to take in only Upper honours and above. But they are prepared to pay higher for these talents.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't be stubborn. A lot of engineers regrets choosing the engineering field. They tend to be overworked and underpaid. They also have less visibility with the senior management because they are too technical.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Whoa, to be fair, engineers nowadays are churned out by the thousands by both local and overseas Unis. Some are sponsored by prospective employers and others on their own steam. Some graduate from top ranked Unis and some from not-so prestigious Unis.

So there is a wide spectrum of capabilities out there. Some will do well becoming technical managers (managerial track) while some will develop along the technical career ladder. As in many other professions, there will be the non performers.

I cannot comment on how engineers perform in the private sector as the employers / companies are way too varied - from the very established companies like IBM, HP to very small SMEs. But in the Civil Service and Defense Industry side, engineers are paid quite well. Good honours fresh grads joining the CS / Military can expect up to $4K pm. Their careers some more quite stable with many opportunities for professional training and upgrade. Understand they are even given increments for advanced degrees! Many of the bosses are themselves engineers so there is less of an issue about being too technical with the bosses.

Actually the only issue with the CS/Military/Defense industry is that they are choosy tending to take in only Upper honours and above. But they are prepared to pay higher for these talents.

I agree that the military / defence related engineering jobs being higher paid, but readers should take note that that is only in certain govt sectors such as DSTA, DSO, TL and that's pretty much it.

What kind of boss you get depends in the dept. Some were very experienced engineers who worked their way up, and these are the best bosses any capable engineer would want. Most others, unfortunately, are scholars who are promoted very quickly to managerial roles and have little working ecperience, let alone engineering skills. I am usually wary of young managers or project leaders that are my interviewers. They may spell certain doom to the project you are assigned to, along with your career!

I also agree with the choosy part. Checked with my cousins that guys with 1st class got offered mid to high 4k+, and for 2nd upper, not all got offered. That's a lot for fresh grads!