Really that bad for engineers?

Don't be too harsh on TS.

There was once a popular debate on whether a person should start off in small company earning lower pay than in a big company eg MNC, GLC or CS, but he will get to be exposed to the full workings of the small company, thereby learning valuable lessons in seeing how a company function and is run.

But I can guess nowadays, people are in a hurry to earn big money and don't see themselves running their own businesses.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Has studying too much fry your brains or what?

You don't know how to decide b/w a 2.5k offer with $40 increment and 3.5k offer with $300 increment?

Instead of building market value how about building your bank account value first?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't be too harsh on TS.

There was once a popular debate on whether a person should start off in small company earning lower pay than in a big company eg MNC, GLC or CS, but he will get to be exposed to the full workings of the small company, thereby learning valuable lessons in seeing how a company function and is run.

But I can guess nowadays, people are in a hurry to earn big money and don't see themselves running their own businesses.

Correct, there is always two sides of the coin. Even Jack Ma recommended starting out in a small company first.

I didn't say it, Jack Ma did. Now, did that get your attention just because it's someone rich and influential? Don't be so quick to pass judgement on others when you aren't at a level where you can i.e. minimally Peter Lim or DBS CEO kind of level.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Correct, there is always two sides of the coin. Even Jack Ma recommended starting out in a small company first.

I didn't say it, Jack Ma did. Now, did that get your attention just because it's someone rich and influential? Don't be so quick to pass judgement on others when you aren't at a level where you can i.e. minimally Peter Lim or DBS CEO kind of level.

that is only when you want to start your own company, you learn the process in small company. If you dont plan to, then there is no point in working in small company as it dont really help you in MNC or GLC

Originally Posted by Unregistered

that is only when you want to start your own company, you learn the process in small company. If you dont plan to, then there is no point in working in small company as it dont really help you in MNC or GLC

Yea TS is not even thinking about joining a small company to get broad spectrum exposure to start a business which was the context of Jack’s advice. In fact he wants to join a foreign company to do overseas project in a strictly bureaucratic environment.

People should try and understand the context before just mouthing quotes from famous personalities.

actually I disagree with this join small company to learn more about business advice that is often given by people from sme background.

I am from sme myself and spent 5+ years in 3 different local small firms. the exp was mix & it depends more on the type of boss the company got. some are more hands off and you get the exposure to do a lot of different things ie bao ga liao. butalthough you learn a lot of things, you also learn a lot of wrong things. u will only realize those things you learn are wrong only when you have the chance to work with the right way.

some towkays can be tyrant and micromanage and demand you do exactly like he say, only on his orders and no question allowed. in this case you learn nothing at all and nothing more than a lowly paid clerk taking instructions from boss on every single little thing. he ask you to call you call, he ask you to type you type, he ask you to talk during mtg then you talk.

[Wing Chun]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

actually I disagree with this join small company to learn more about business advice that is often given by people from sme background.

I am from sme myself and spent 5+ years in 3 different local small firms. the exp was mix & it depends more on the type of boss the company got. some are more hands off and you get the exposure to do a lot of different things ie bao ga liao. butalthough you learn a lot of things, you also learn a lot of wrong things. u will only realize those things you learn are wrong only when you have the chance to work with the right way.

some towkays can be tyrant and micromanage and demand you do exactly like he say, only on his orders and no question allowed. in this case you learn nothing at all and nothing more than a lowly paid clerk taking instructions from boss on every single little thing. he ask you to call you call, he ask you to type you type, he ask you to talk during mtg then you talk.

So it seems that everyone is having a pretty bad impression on Jap companies. I know they have rather average salary and long working hour, but wouldn't it be good to spend more time learning the ropes of an engineer than to earn a few hundred bucks more (let say in GLC) and just doing project management

Originally Posted by Wing Chun

So it seems that everyone is having a pretty bad impression on Jap companies. I know they have rather average salary and long working hour, but wouldn't it be good to spend more time learning the ropes of an engineer than to earn a few hundred bucks more (let say in GLC) and just doing project management

It's not a few hundred bucks difference. Starting salary already 1k difference, after 10 years end up 5k difference...

yes the salary for a starting according to news can be around 3.6k for fresh grad. for current engineer in public sector i hear that they will increase 10% of their pay.

Is engineering career a deadend one in Singapore unless lucky to join DSTA or IDA?

Engineer with 7 years experience asking for 4.5k still no call for interview.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

actually I disagree with this join small company to learn more about business advice that is often given by people from sme background.

Exactly. I've been to enough places to objectively make the conclusion that whether you are exposed to the interesting parts of a business depends on 1) the company's projection of your capabilities and 2) your manager and never on the size of the company.

You could be brought into a business of 30 people and start investing company's money, or be stuck as an accountant. You can go to Citibank and do just payrolls, or be on track on the management program attached to a mentor who is a finance legend.

Look at fit and whether your bosses invest in your development. Never just think company size.