Really that bad for engineers?

Originally Posted by ZZZ

that's a pretty good overall package if you include the bonus. however, for the next 15 years you will need to ensure there is a clear path for promotion and increment and ensure you are not easily replaceable.

Thanks for your advice.

Engineer is still generally underpaid.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

We in sg.. Talk about sg la.

If not compare till day break? Seriously.

There are many top end R&D facilities here in SG that need specialist engineers, but too bad our education system only churns out low end generic engineers. That's why you see so many foreign elite engineers here on super high expat packages.

The problem is not about lack of pay in engineering jobs in SG, but more like there are these high paying engineering jobs here that are not filled by locals because most of our local engineer do have the bare minimum skill sets to take them up.

There's way too many generic civil, EEE, mechanical, IT & bioscience engineers here who are competing on the low level market with the cheap Indian/China/Pinoy/Myanmar FTs.

My company recently engage headhunter to try & recruit a local turbine design engineer with 5-7 years experience, budget was set at S$180-200k. Despite many months recruiting, all we got from local CVs were garbage with general mechanical/electrical engineer experience who were either unemployed or drawing 50-70k. In the end we had to transfer a German guy here on a super expensive expat package.

What I see is that entry level engineering jobs are far and few between. Most companies want people with 2-3 years experience minimum. If everyone is hiring experienced people how can the grads learn? The only exception is the public service (stat boards like LTA, PUB) who do hire fresh grads. Maybe they are more restricted and cannot hire too many PRs/foreigner and have an obligation to hire Singaporean fresh grads. But the skills you learn in govt is very different from the private sector.

Most private companies are not interested to invest the effort to train our young grads, maybe because of all the readily available cheap FT from the developing countries (who do already have experience). It's a vicious cycle. In the Western world (where I spent 10+ years as an engineer - I came back because of family reasons) companies invest in the young engineers/grads and the pay is not bad. For one thing they don't have cheap FT competing with the locals.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What I see is that entry level engineering jobs are far and few between. Most companies want people with 2-3 years experience minimum. If everyone is hiring experienced people how can the grads learn? The only exception is the public service (stat boards like LTA, PUB) who do hire fresh grads. Maybe they are more restricted and cannot hire too many PRs/foreigner and have an obligation to hire Singaporean fresh grads. But the skills you learn in govt is very different from the private sector.

Most private companies are not interested to invest the effort to train our young grads, maybe because of all the readily available cheap FT from the developing countries (who do already have experience). It's a vicious cycle. In the Western world (where I spent 10+ years as an engineer - I came back because of family reasons) companies invest in the young engineers/grads and the pay is not bad. For one thing they don't have cheap FT competing with the locals.

I'm in SV. Same experience as in Singapore. Which country are you referring to when you say "Western World"?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My company recently engage headhunter to try & recruit a local turbine design engineer with 5-7 years experience, budget was set at S$180-200k. Despite many months recruiting, all we got from local CVs were garbage with general mechanical/electrical engineer experience who were either unemployed or drawing 50-70k. In the end we had to transfer a German guy here on a super expensive expat package.

Seriously? Garbage CV i can understand, or perhaps unemployment.

But why are you making a big fuss over someone drawing 50-70k and applying for the turbine design job?
You should already know most engineers are underpaid here and its not their fault or a reflection of their capabilities.

God bless. lucky i am not an engineer.

I think much of the problem also comes from the type of attitude we have from a lot of local engine grads here.

Most of them are pretty short sighted and unwilling to take short term low pay & discomfort to gain meaningful experience.

I was in the offshore marine industry and we had a lot of postings overseas in rural areas in Malaysia & Indonesia. Company was prepared to pay general Singapore type wages ~3k for a local fresh grad.

However most of the locals here have ridiculous expectations - they want expatriate package with good house & car, must have work life balance, give them flight tickets to fly back here regularly etc. Quite foolish actually because once they have 5+ years exp and get the network in O&M industry, headhunters will auto come and look for them with all the $$$ they can ever dream of.

I myself dont understand why the local grads die die must work in big cities, die die must be 5 day / 50 hr work week etc. At the same time keep complain about how the foreign engineers rob their jobs. Why not go outside to rob other country's job instead of complaining here all the time?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think much of the problem also comes from the type of attitude we have from a lot of local engine grads here.

Most of them are pretty short sighted and unwilling to take short term low pay & discomfort to gain meaningful experience.

I was in the offshore marine industry and we had a lot of postings overseas in rural areas in Malaysia & Indonesia. Company was prepared to pay general Singapore type wages ~3k for a local fresh grad.

However most of the locals here have ridiculous expectations - they want expatriate package with good house & car, must have work life balance, give them flight tickets to fly back here regularly etc. Quite foolish actually because once they have 5+ years exp and get the network in O&M industry, headhunters will auto come and look for them with all the $$$ they can ever dream of.

I myself dont understand why the local grads die die must work in big cities, die die must be 5 day / 50 hr work week etc. At the same time keep complain about how the foreign engineers rob their jobs. Why not go outside to rob other country's job instead of complaining here all the time?

its the typical sinkie everything must be in the box mentality. we are all told since young, study hard, get a good job in a good company with standard working hours and standard location, standard PME lifestyle. most of them scared to deviate from the "correct" path even if it means lousy pay and getting trampled by foreigners.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

its the typical sinkie everything must be in the box mentality. we are all told since young, study hard, get a good job in a good company with standard working hours and standard location, standard PME lifestyle. most of them scared to deviate from the "correct" path even if it means lousy pay and getting trampled by foreigners.

A lot of local engineers regard 5-day workweek, worklife balance in a swanky office and a fancy title of "engineer" or "manager" to be entitlement. There are many good paying technical jobs out there on shift or rotation schedule, but most locals especially those with g/f or family just simply refuse to consider.

This kind of mentality will reduce the number of jobs available by a lot because the trend these days is to move towards global project management and ability to deploy flexibily base on biz needs. The old model where you just turn up for work and knock off in the evening in a fixed office is getting obsolete. Midnight or early morning meetings with project teams in Europe or America is very common now.

Many people in other countries are already talking about work life integration, most of our local engineers here still stuck in 1990s good old days talk about work life balance.

I heard Professional Engineers earn a lot.

Any PE care to share their payscale here? how much they earn per endorsement etc

mechanical
electrical
civil

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

A lot of local engineers regard 5-day workweek, worklife balance in a swanky office and a fancy title of "engineer" or "manager" to be entitlement. There are many good paying technical jobs out there on shift or rotation schedule, but most locals especially those with g/f or family just simply refuse to consider.

This kind of mentality will reduce the number of jobs available by a lot because the trend these days is to move towards global project management and ability to deploy flexibily base on biz needs. The old model where you just turn up for work and knock off in the evening in a fixed office is getting obsolete. Midnight or early morning meetings with project teams in Europe or America is very common now.

Many people in other countries are already talking about work life integration, most of our local engineers here still stuck in 1990s good old days talk about work life balance.

There's nothing wrong with asking for worklife balance. The important thing is do you command the market power to demand for that. Most of the people I see bitching about worklife balance all seem to be quite low level professionals with common skill and experience that everyone have. That is the real problem. When you don't have any exceptional thing to offer, not many company will bother to "entertain" your POV.