30yo's career -- advice from the wiser and more experienced? Int in Law/Mger/Teacher

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi Harrow,

I was in a similar state like you when I was 30, lost, confused and in between seeminging "wrong" choices in career. It doesnt help that I was also idealistic and someone with entirely different value system compared to many Singaporeans who frankly speaking (from the above replies) are the typical Philistines because we tend to seek out meanings and purposes in life than exercise pragmatism (MBTI I was tested for INFJ). I found that the true purpose/calling in my career is to "value add" others with information and knowledge.

One way out (to reconcile your strong communication skills with commercial purposes) is to become some kind of a consultant. The easiest way to achieve that is to become a business development executive, or a product marketing executive. You educate the customers/key opinion leaders, and indirectly closing sales to earn commissions in the process. I had went from technical job, to teaching job, and sometime around 30 years of age when I lost almost everything (jobs, girlfriend), I went into doing product specialist job, and now I am a regional marketing manager. It took me about 3-5 years to reach there.

Food for thoughts, with many permutations!

Tmi, who gives a flying **** what your myers briggs personality type is? Wanna state your PSLE results too?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't think it's a good idea for TS to waste time & money studying law. By the time he finish saving, studying his diploma then degree etc. already 36-37 years old. Chances of a middle age guy with an overseas degree without experience getting a job in the bigger law firms & mncs/banks is very slim.

Most likely end up in some small partnership firm or legal executive / paralegal in local company, which means the starting pay maybe 4k. Still need to spend the next few years paying down debts.

Unless he is really passionate about studying law, from a financial perspective really not worth it.

If TS want to come back to SG, it will be more sense to focus on doing tuition, joining a private educational company, build up network and credibility and eventually either set up his own firm or be a lecturer in an institute. Can make more money, no need to live like a miser and most importantly no need to borrow so much money from the bank.

If it's me at the age of 37 I will prefer to be a well established educator with my own supporters and niche in the market than some entry level legal executive reporting to a younger boss in some ikan bilis local co.

Yes,I 100% agree with your advice.When I was advocating about the possibility of studying law,my only intention was to prove it is very much possible but did I mention is it worth it? Considering his age restrictions,your advice is best suited for individuals like him.

are u guys really that dumb that u need to feed a troll/moron? some lepak 1 corner hippie teacher in 3rd world country claim he want to be lawyer, mnc mid top manager & u guys actuallytake him seriously....

Hi TS. Im in the reverse position from you, kind of. Spent the last 10 yrs of my life working, and am having a bit of fatigue right now from a very formulaic, deskbound job. I'm
32. I have a BA with honours, so was wondering how you managed to get those teaching jobs in unis in japan and china. Dont they only hire native english speakers i.e. Caucasians? How did you get your teaching stints? If you dont mind, can i PM you?

[harrow]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hey man,Ignore people's comments here because they're only trying to belitte you in every possible way.In your initial post you mentioned Law is certainly out of the picture considering the limited seats,well if you consider it in that angle then,yeah you probably don't have hope but you know what they say? If there is a will,there is a way.You could consider taking up UOL's Law diploma and using that as an entry qualification into Universities like Kings,London.Since you're already 30 this would probably be a better route for you.Ive heard the diploma is hard but you should understand that you're choosing a profession which is very competitive so it only makes sense you work hard for the diploma and use it as a ticket into Law school.Since it's also expensive,I'm sure you will have savings to back you up on this or maybe work a year or two for it.Remember it's not too late to do anything unless you have completely given up and wouldn't even consider to try.

The chances of me getting into NUS law is slim (only 250 seats or so per year), but if I do get in, and if I do pass with a 2:2 (you need a 2:2 to practise), I will graduate in 3 years (graduate entry). SMU's JD is probably easier to enter but it costs 70k.

The starting salary for lawyers in SG is 5-6k. So being a lawyer in Singapore is not a bad career. It can rise to 10k after a few years. I know, I have a few lawyer friends.

Studying overseas for a law degree is quite pointless as you cannot practise in Singapore (unless you study in one of the allowed universities and are lucky enough to get a training contact (currently in short supply)). The main point of being a lawyer is to rake in some money. Personally, I will enjoy being a lawyer as it suits me.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi TS. Im in the reverse position from you, kind of. Spent the last 10 yrs of my life working, and am having a bit of fatigue right now from a very formulaic, deskbound job. I'm
32. I have a BA with honours, so was wondering how you managed to get those teaching jobs in unis in japan and china. Dont they only hire native english speakers i.e. Caucasians? How did you get your teaching stints? If you dont mind, can i PM you?

Sure, feel free to PM me. I think most Singaporeans our age are native speakers of Singaporean English (unless you speak Chinese or Malay or Tamil at home and with your friends and not Singlish). I don't have a thick Singaporean accent (in fact, I probably speak better than probably 95% of folks in Singapore (including many news presenters)) so I guess that helps. At least I don't speak in a syllable-timed way or struggle with basic grammar etc. Being a corporate presenter/PR guy is another career avenue I am considering due to this.

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Throughout my life, I have found that I am better at English (always one of the top students even if I slept through classes) and Geography, History, etc, but I struggle a little with Mathematics, complex formulas, etc.

So I have decided to stick to the things I am better at and enjoy the most.

Before I taught, I completed a teaching certificate. Having teaching experience is pretty useful.

I earn around 3-4k SGD a month currently(with a nice apartment and utility bills all paid for by my employer...this would be an additional 400-600 SGD). I will just say I earn 3k as I earn less during the holidays (I get 3 months of paid holiday each year, but I spend a lot of money on traveling sometimes, as it is usual for folks here to travel during the winter/summer holidays (peer pressure)) This is quite a standard contract/wage over here.

I can earn 4k+ or 5k actually, but that would require me to work additional part-time of at least 15-18 hours a week on top of my basic 16-18 hours. Total= 33-36 hours (still shorter than most hours in Singapore). But teaching for 35-40 hours a week is tiring (but possible if you are very motivated), you will understand if you are a teacher. There is more work to teaching than the 'classroom hours' (you normally have to spend at least 5 hours or 10 hours per week reviewing your classes, marking stuff, or planning for lessons, or reading stuff to improve yourself). So 40 hours in the classroom would mean about 50 hours working a week.

I can save most of my money quite easily. Maybe 2.5-3k a month if I really want to save up (like the past few months) , or most likely save around 2k a month (average over 12 months a year) and spend 1-2k a month. The exchange rates fluctuate but the currency has appreciated against the SGD by something like 5 or 10% over the past few years. And there are better investment returns here as well (I get 5% returns for my 'fixed deposits' here, risk free). You can also buy an apartment and pray that they don't screw things up and your money will double or triple in 10-15 years' time (which some people do here).

In Japan, the cost of living is higher (especially rent), but my wages there are higher as well. Most contracts here only require 16-18 hours of teaching, the rest of the time I work part-time for about 30-60 SGD per hour. Part-time jobs are plentiful. The more established guys go into giving group classes themselves and they can make 100 SGD/200 SGD per hour after paying for rent etc.

This is part of the reason why I am a little hesistant to go back to SG and live with my mother in a HDB in a lousy neighbourhood and put up with her nagging daily. Renting in SG doesn't make sense. I am not 35 yet so I can't buy a HDB flat, I may if I could. Here, I have a nice apartment, with a balcony, and my work depends on me, and I enjoy my work generally and I have a lot of fun and I learn a lot of things. I enjoy the four seasons as well. I earn 3-4k SGD after tax here, to earn the same amount in cash in SG would require a wage of 5-6k sgd, which is the salary of a less-experienced senior manager. Overall, in SG, you will earn more if you include CPF, but I can't touch the CPF money until I am 65.

As for finding a job, I didn't find it hard at all. I got lots of job offers when my last work contract ended, from Hong Kong, Japan, Turkey and Europe. People here don't tell me that my degree is a 'private degree' when it is a public university degree from one of the biggest public uk university (which you probably have heard of as well, albeit is it not a high-ranking one).

There are bad things about the job/life here as well. As you know very well. Lousy management, poor quality of stuff (including roads), etc. In Japan, there are also quite a lot of not-so-good stuff. Ditto for any other place be it SG or anywhere else. Just got to take care of yourself.

I am happy with my life over the past few years. Honestly. There have been ups and downs but I have learnt so much and I have been incredibly happy.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi Harrow,

I was in a similar state like you when I was 30, lost, confused and in between seeminging "wrong" choices in career. It doesnt help that I was also idealistic and someone with entirely different value system compared to many Singaporeans who frankly speaking (from the above replies) are the typical Philistines because we tend to seek out meanings and purposes in life than exercise pragmatism (MBTI I was tested for INFJ). I found that the true purpose/calling in my career is to "value add" others with information and knowledge.

One way out (to reconcile your strong communication skills with commercial purposes) is to become some kind of a consultant. The easiest way to achieve that is to become a business development executive, or a product marketing executive. You educate the customers/key opinion leaders, and indirectly closing sales to earn commissions in the process. I had went from technical job, to teaching job, and sometime around 30 years of age when I lost almost everything (jobs, girlfriend), I went into doing product specialist job, and now I am a regional marketing manager. It took me about 3-5 years to reach there.

Food for thoughts, with many permutations!

Thank you, very insightful post. I am not lost or confused, but rather, just trying to seek out better opportunities. I am glad you are doing well now and enjoy your life/job.

I will focus on finishing my part-time education masters from UCL and then start sending out a few emails. My PR application is also going to be approved soon, or so I hope, so I can move if I want to.

I have no problems making 3-4k SGD after tax (as I currently do), but the problem is, if I want to go above that it becomes a little difficult with not many clear routes. Perhaps, if I teach in an international school, or become a teacher trainer, I can earn up to 5k SGD (with some part-time work). Then after that, there is little career advancement unless I am entrepreneurial and start to organised small-group classes, or get involved with other part-time businesses.

Perhaps, I will be a teacher trainer in SG or overseas, or perhaps I will seek out other opportunities that would allow me to earn a better income in SG, etc.

wtf is this? pimple face teenager whining.

Originally Posted by harrow

The chances of me getting into NUS law is slim (only 250 seats or so per year), but if I do get in, and if I do pass with a 2:2 (you need a 2:2 to practise), I will graduate in 3 years (graduate entry). SMU's JD is probably easier to enter but it costs 70k.

The starting salary for lawyers in SG is 5-6k. So being a lawyer in Singapore is not a bad career. It can rise to 10k after a few years. I know, I have a few lawyer friends.

Studying overseas for a law degree is quite pointless as you cannot practise in Singapore (unless you study in one of the allowed universities and are lucky enough to get a training contact (currently in short supply)). The main point of being a lawyer is to rake in some money. Personally, I will enjoy being a lawyer as it suits me.



Sure, feel free to PM me. I think most Singaporeans our age are native speakers of Singaporean English (unless you speak Chinese or Malay or Tamil at home and with your friends and not Singlish). I don't have a thick Singaporean accent (in fact, I probably speak better than probably 95% of folks in Singapore (including many news presenters)) so I guess that helps. At least I don't speak in a syllable-timed way or struggle with basic grammar etc. Being a corporate presenter/PR guy is another career avenue I am considering due to this.

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Throughout my life, I have found that I am better at English (always one of the top students even if I slept through classes) and Geography, History, etc, but I struggle a little with Mathematics, complex formulas, etc.

So I have decided to stick to the things I am better at and enjoy the most.

Before I taught, I completed a teaching certificate. Having teaching experience is pretty useful.

I earn around 3-4k SGD a month currently(with a nice apartment and utility bills all paid for by my employer...this would be an additional 400-600 SGD). I will just say I earn 3k as I earn less during the holidays (I get 3 months of paid holiday each year, but I spend a lot of money on traveling sometimes, as it is usual for folks here to travel during the winter/summer holidays (peer pressure)) This is quite a standard contract/wage over here.

I can earn 4k+ or 5k actually, but that would require me to work additional part-time of at least 15-18 hours a week on top of my basic 16-18 hours. Total= 33-36 hours (still shorter than most hours in Singapore). But teaching for 35-40 hours a week is tiring (but possible if you are very motivated), you will understand if you are a teacher. There is more work to teaching than the 'classroom hours' (you normally have to spend at least 5 hours or 10 hours per week reviewing your classes, marking stuff, or planning for lessons, or reading stuff to improve yourself). So 40 hours in the classroom would mean about 50 hours working a week.

I can save most of my money quite easily. Maybe 2.5-3k a month if I really want to save up (like the past few months) , or most likely save around 2k a month (average over 12 months a year) and spend 1-2k a month. The exchange rates fluctuate but the currency has appreciated against the SGD by something like 5 or 10% over the past few years. And there are better investment returns here as well (I get 5% returns for my 'fixed deposits' here, risk free). You can also buy an apartment and pray that they don't screw things up and your money will double or triple in 10-15 years' time (which some people do here).

In Japan, the cost of living is higher (especially rent), but my wages there are higher as well. Most contracts here only require 16-18 hours of teaching, the rest of the time I work part-time for about 30-60 SGD per hour. Part-time jobs are plentiful. The more established guys go into giving group classes themselves and they can make 100 SGD/200 SGD per hour after paying for rent etc.

This is part of the reason why I am a little hesistant to go back to SG and live with my mother in a HDB in a lousy neighbourhood and put up with her nagging daily. Renting in SG doesn't make sense. I am not 35 yet so I can't buy a HDB flat, I may if I could. Here, I have a nice apartment, with a balcony, and my work depends on me, and I enjoy my work generally and I have a lot of fun and I learn a lot of things. I enjoy the four seasons as well. I earn 3-4k SGD after tax here, to earn the same amount in cash in SG would require a wage of 5-6k sgd, which is the salary of a less-experienced senior manager. Overall, in SG, you will earn more if you include CPF, but I can't touch the CPF money until I am 65.

As for finding a job, I didn't find it hard at all. I got lots of job offers when my last work contract ended, from Hong Kong, Japan, Turkey and Europe. People here don't tell me that my degree is a 'private degree' when it is a public university degree from one of the biggest public uk university (which you probably have heard of as well, albeit is it not a high-ranking one).

There are bad things about the job/life here as well. As you know very well. Lousy management, poor quality of stuff (including roads), etc. In Japan, there are also quite a lot of not-so-good stuff. Ditto for any other place be it SG or anywhere else. Just got to take care of yourself.

I am happy with my life over the past few years. Honestly. There have been ups and downs but I have learnt so much and I have been incredibly happy.



Thank you, very insightful post. I am not lost or confused, but rather, just trying to seek out better opportunities. I am glad you are doing well now and enjoy your life/job.

I will focus on finishing my part-time education masters from UCL and then start sending out a few emails. My PR application is also going to be approved soon, or so I hope, so I can move if I want to.

I have no problems making 3-4k SGD after tax (as I currently do), but the problem is, if I want to go above that it becomes a little difficult with not many clear routes. Perhaps, if I teach in an international school, or become a teacher trainer, I can earn up to 5k SGD (with some part-time work). Then after that, there is little career advancement unless I am entrepreneurial and start to organised small-group classes, or get involved with other part-time businesses.

Perhaps, I will be a teacher trainer in SG or overseas, or perhaps I will seek out other opportunities that would allow me to earn a better income in SG, etc.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

are u guys really that dumb that u need to feed a troll/moron? some lepak 1 corner hippie teacher in 3rd world country claim he want to be lawyer, mnc mid top manager & u guys actuallytake him seriously....

Now he wanna be a teacher trainer or corporate presenter liao
Waiting till he say he wanna be the next president

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Now he wanna be a teacher trainer or corporate presenter liao
Waiting till he say he wanna be the next president

He can only do it in countries where English is not their first language, cause he can snook them with his imaginary English skills.

Come back Singapore, even an MOE GEO2 teacher is better than him.

Hi TS, thanks.

So what teaching certification did you take? The TEFL?

I don't think you need to pay heed to the naysayers here. End of the day everyone treads their own path and lives the consequences of their decisions.

[harrow]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi TS, thanks.

So what teaching certification did you take? The TEFL?

I don't think you need to pay heed to the naysayers here. End of the day everyone treads their own path and lives the consequences of their decisions.

Yo, you can take any TEFL with more than 140 hours. I took the CELTA and I am currently finishing up my part time masters in education from UCL.

There is a school in Singapore offering the CELTA with up to 90 percent WDA funding, you can google for its name, I forgot.

I haven't worked FT in SG for about half a decade now. During this time i have worled as a uni instructor for business and english courses in 2 public unis (both somewhat reputable within the country...currently instructing for a uk degree course) in 2 different countries. Having experience with job search and teaching helps. I have met singaporeans with thick singaporean accents teaching english as well (as well as Filipinos, who, mostly, shouldn't be teaching english...you can say the same for 99 percent of local teachers in japan and china and maybe 30 percent of teachers in spore) as well. I know the sporeans earn about 3.5k sgd after tax, with 3 months paid winter and summer holidays, with around half to 1 mth bonus annually. They offered me a contract so that's how I know.

In my previous uni, most of the foreign instructors are pretty well educated. The french girl had a scholarship and a masters in edu. One american guy has a ba and masters in translation both with first class honours and was an adjunct in his us uni. I have met cambridge and harvard grads (the harvard grad left after a year or two). You need minimum a degree with 2 years work exp and a 140 hr tefl to get a work visa in most countries. The sexpats and backpackers mostly work illegally teaching in private schools and kindies. It Is a different group.

I have had many interviews conducted by many people (english speakers from different parta of the us, uk, spore...chinese, japanese, arabs, etc). my personal experience is it is easier to get a job offer from english speakers (probably a job offer rate of 6/10 for me) as they actually are fluent in the language and many of the good teachers are able to master contemporary teaching methods (CLT, learning by teaching, fieldwork, etc, methods that give students a social and interactive experience, that also enhance learning and retention according to the latest research...short breaks, etc ). many of the gonzo chi or jap interviewers who are not fluent in english are simply incompetent, or have very little knowledge about many things (like the one of the poster above). Their teaching methods are usually outdated by a hundred years, grammar translation, the usual point and read with 200 exams annually in broken english or caning (also very common in sg unis as most uni lecturers (and most moe teachers as well) are boring researchers with zero personalitiea not teachers...slowly changing as they implement educator tracks in many unis now).

Ciao. Sayonara. Zai jian. Time to work. @@