calculate salary must calculate the hidden cost also

[kakarukeys]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You talk about monetizing your free time to "Earn more". Sure you could do that. But would you actually do it? Would you enjoy doing it? (since you said its about being happy) If you enjoy working an extra job that pays more (by hour) than your current job, you might as well quit your current job and work full time on that.

In fact yes. Many in my industry quit their full-time to be on their own. Either into freelance, consultancy or tech startup. This is what I intend to do after my current job. But it is relevant to the topic, so I will not elaborate.

P/S, those from GLC, MNC will have difficulty pursuing this path, due to the culture over there.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Just to add on. If you include bonuses, which would have nothing to do with hours worked, it would definitely affect the results. There are companies or jobs that have relatively lower lower compensations but their eoy bonus is FAT.

If you followed the first post, the bonus was counted.

[icy water]

the problem is that most forumers here are arguing that you cant just compare salary based on per hour. but the point ts is making (i believe) is that all other factors being equal, one is making comparable $/hr as another.
I would see this equation of total renumeration/hrs worked as the amount of benefit (in $) you get for every amount of work (in hours) you put in.
Thats all.
8 hrs/day, $4k/month is comparable to 16 hrs/day, $8k/mth if you compare by per hour.
If you only compare the monthly salary and ignore any working hours, of course the difference is there.

[poor and stupid]

Originally Posted by icy water

the problem is that most forumers here are arguing that you cant just compare salary based on per hour. but the point ts is making (i believe) is that all other factors being equal, one is making comparable $/hr as another.
I would see this equation of total renumeration/hrs worked as the amount of benefit (in $) you get for every amount of work (in hours) you put in.
Thats all.
8 hrs/day, $4k/month is comparable to 16 hrs/day, $8k/mth if you compare by per hour.
If you only compare the monthly salary and ignore any working hours, of course the difference is there.

Actually as you said the difference is there... the one working 16hrs/day, 8k/mth actually earns less after paying income tax

well... DON'T trust me I am an "engineer", i earn so low i dun pay income tax

[bladez87]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am in IT as well, mine works out to be sgd 91/hr (190K per annum over 230 days and 9 hrs per day)

waaa 190k per annum! thats a lot man! not many people earn that much

[poor and stupid]

aiya stop calculating this way, liddat loanshark runners earn the most liao, 500buck for setting fire in 1min aka 3000/hr

[bladez87]

Originally Posted by poor and stupid

aiya stop calculating this way, liddat loanshark runners earn the most liao, 500buck for setting fire in 1min aka 3000/hr

pretty sure 1 hour they earn 30000.

[Soul]

I do free-lance consultancy and get paid 400 USD an hour. jobs are not often. once in a while only. and generally around an hour.

Honestly I don't think it's fair to calculated hourly wage like that. You are paid what the firm think you are worth. If not happy ask for a raise or find a new company willing to pay more.

Very simple example for the TS bashers.

Would you rather:

(a) Work 8 hours a day and get S$3,000/mth salary
(b) Work 8 hours a day plus 8 hour OT a day, and get S$4,500/mth salary.

Some may choose (a) some may choose (b) due to their own lifestyle choices or how much money they need. The TS is trying to say, who actually earns "more" money? Is it (a), or (b)? The answer depends on your POV and it can be either, depending on which POV you look at. On absolute terms (b) is earning more, but he is earning more at what cost? Most OT pays 1.5 to 2x rate, but yet he is getting 0.5x rate for his OT. So is he really earning more?

It's little old me from UK who commented before. Boy has this thread grown since I last chanced upon it!!

Even if you accept TS comparison of durians to durian puffs involving him and his friend, the qualitative aspects of his comparison still seems a bit skewed in TS's friend's favour.

Firstly, TS's friend (TSF) works in a GLC, if I remember correctly. GLC is inherently more stable and provides greater job security than a job in an SME. When the economic shits hits the reality fan, I know where I would rather be.

Also, the TS prefers a decent work-life balance. I've no problem with this- life is already too short. But TS wants to lobo in the private sector in an SME! If you want to lobo, why not lobo in public sector and enjoy the supremely greater job security and have loads of leisure time?? For example, I remember a neighbor who was a teacher. Every day, he would arrive home before me (i do CCA, etc) and cycle around the neighborhood. He sibei carefree, I think he heck care CCA, extra classes, marking homework seriously, just lobo and wait for retirement.

Perhaps a viable option for TS? Remember TS's boss is paying him a fixed salary but does not seem to want to maximise TS's working hours by farming him out for contracts as much as possible i.e. longer hours for TS.

Crudely, this indicates business is not exactly booming or boss doesn't try very hard in expanding his client base? Either way, if I was paying someone a fixed monthly wage and I can make more money by working him/her as much as possible everyday.

I'm perhaps making one too many suppositions and assumptions above. But this is what happens when one tries to make holistic comparisons. IMHO, we are selling our time for $, so comparing the absolute amount earned per year/month makes sense. We each have 24 hrs in a day after all. Sure absolute amount might not be the whole story, but it's a simple way of comparison. Why do you think football is decided by the goals scored?

If you want to make a comparison, then one should try to make it as holistic as possible. Examples presented so far assume that we work for only 1 year / 1 month, fail to take account of job security and other factors.

Lastly, this whole thread arose out of TS's friend haolian-ing to TS. TS tabulek tahan, shot back a counter-argument which paints a fuller picture (but still ignores other significant considerations. ) TS then felt the need to holler his thread which I think didn't go down well. All working folks are acutely aware that we are selling time for $, our choice of job is in the end a personal choice , crystallised from a consideration of a myriad of factors.

In other words, calculate salary must also calculate hidden cost must also calculate hidden benefits must also calculate the inherently unquantifiable aspects of work ( joy of working with like-minded people, meaningful work, stress, inspirational boss, career arc, )

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It's little old me from UK who commented before. Boy has this thread grown since I last chanced upon it!!

Even if you accept TS comparison of durians to durian puffs involving him and his friend, the qualitative aspects of his comparison still seems a bit skewed in TS's friend's favour.

Firstly, TS's friend (TSF) works in a GLC, if I remember correctly. GLC is inherently more stable and provides greater job security than a job in an SME. When the economic shits hits the reality fan, I know where I would rather be.

Also, the TS prefers a decent work-life balance. I've no problem with this- life is already too short. But TS wants to lobo in the private sector in an SME! If you want to lobo, why not lobo in public sector and enjoy the supremely greater job security and have loads of leisure time?? For example, I remember a neighbor who was a teacher. Every day, he would arrive home before me (i do CCA, etc) and cycle around the neighborhood. He sibei carefree, I think he heck care CCA, extra classes, marking homework seriously, just lobo and wait for retirement.

Perhaps a viable option for TS? Remember TS's boss is paying him a fixed salary but does not seem to want to maximise TS's working hours by farming him out for contracts as much as possible i.e. longer hours for TS.

Crudely, this indicates business is not exactly booming or boss doesn't try very hard in expanding his client base? Either way, if I was paying someone a fixed monthly wage and I can make more money by working him/her as much as possible everyday.

I'm perhaps making one too many suppositions and assumptions above. But this is what happens when one tries to make holistic comparisons. IMHO, we are selling our time for $, so comparing the absolute amount earned per year/month makes sense. We each have 24 hrs in a day after all. Sure absolute amount might not be the whole story, but it's a simple way of comparison. Why do you think football is decided by the goals scored?

If you want to make a comparison, then one should try to make it as holistic as possible. Examples presented so far assume that we work for only 1 year / 1 month, fail to take account of job security and other factors.

Lastly, this whole thread arose out of TS's friend haolian-ing to TS. TS tabulek tahan, shot back a counter-argument which paints a fuller picture (but still ignores other significant considerations. ) TS then felt the need to holler his thread which I think didn't go down well. All working folks are acutely aware that we are selling time for $, our choice of job is in the end a personal choice , crystallised from a consideration of a myriad of factors.

In other words, calculate salary must also calculate hidden cost must also calculate hidden benefits must also calculate the inherently unquantifiable aspects of work ( joy of working with like-minded people, meaningful work, stress, inspirational boss, career arc, )

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