Really that bad for engineers?

Aspiring engineers to be, please take note of following taken from Kim Eng research report

".....Singapore manufacturing stocks have become a byname for dividends as the heydays of the hard disk drive and contract manufacturing boom waned following the dot-com boom, and as more and more high-volume manufacturing operations were moved offshore, mainly to Malaysia or China, to escape high domestic costs. In fact, most producers now maintain only a minimal manufacturing presence in Singapore, using the country to house HQ operations, R&D, sales and marketing, and at best, light prototyping manufacturing activities....... "

Going by the trend, manufacturing sector will get smaller. These days, only the petro-chemical sector is going well, and still be safe from external competition from India/China, and it will take a decade for them to build up the petro-chemical upstream/downstream supply chain ecosystem. By then, margin pressures will force these plants to relocate again.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

my cousin fresh grad 2nd upper NUS drawing a starting pay of $3650 as a hardware engineer in one of the well known local company. Not lying and I find this a very good starting pay for a fresh grad.

Ask your cousin how much his immediate manager is paid, and he will know see his future salary in 10 years time.

I worked in four different countries; currently is in Australia. To me, engineers working in SG are massively underpay. I worked for a government sector in SG and was paid 4.5k with something between 3-6 months bonus base on performance and the GDP growth. I quit the job and went to Australia and now is enjoying my six figue salary.

But all these discussions are just about engineers needing to leave engineering to survive.

So where can we go? (industry, not country)
We're technically trained, sometimes with specific skillsets and our communication and language skills are generally on the losing end.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

But all these discussions are just about engineers needing to leave engineering to survive.

So where can we go? (industry, not country)
We're technically trained, sometimes with specific skillsets and our communication and language skills are generally on the losing end.

Well... If you still young, you should try to take a masters in a non-engineering discipline..
( eg: Accountancy, economics or an MBA ) to be able to make the switch.. Gd luck..

Shift Manufacturing Engineer in the aviation industry with 2yrs exp... can ask for how much ???

[aimless74]

hi All,

i came to this forum and read thru the thread. interesting to me.
i like to ask for advise and open myself to more option.

my profile: age 37 married with a kid, with parents to support,hdb flat.
EEEng from UK, MBA

back in 1997, after graduated from UK, engineering job (software engineer)
is easy to land a job, i got a job within 2 weeks of sending resume (earning 2.3K) local firm nothing great, it is firmware development. soon within 3 mths i move to another company as classmate recommended. it was linux development (widget) back then it was fun, really enjoy and the passion to do the job right and fast. my effort was recongnised and paid off within 1 year my pay rose from 2.5K-3.2K. maybe not alot but i was happy with effort being recongnise. worked there for 3 yrs and not much career prospect so i went off to and wanted to get into a MNC as least room to move around.

landed a job as a software engineer in a consumer electronics MNC. again i worked my way up, from lower grade, i become a fast paced and high performance engineer, starting 3.5K to 5.5K with perks (travel allowance etc)
been there for 5 yrs and i studied my MBA part time while i was there. i was sent to a few places for months for tech transfer (EU/US). i promoted from software engineer to chief engineer (Assistant Manager/manager)

next i moved on as i was approached to setup a new business department for another MNC which does more OEM/ODM consumer rather than a specific brand.
i see this an opportunity for more exposure and of course more $$$. i went over and built the department. for 2 yrs because of the trend in singapore, manufacturing or R&D or Consumer electronics is doing down trend, the business is not doing well. the department was then being closed, and i was retrenched. lost of job for 2 mths

i keep on searching in 2010 for project manager, project engineer, product manager etc but no reply at all. my skillset was firmware/software development, SDLC and project management. i did not restrict myself to singapore only.
i found a job in china, offering as production manager which is totally not related to my engineering skills, i took it i was paid 7K (it actually breakeven including cpf) but i got no choice but to be in china. i left home a year ago leaving my wife n kid behind, wife is a normal clerical job and kid taken care by my parents. so now this job, again due to downturn, company is not doing well
i signed a 1 year contract and my contract is almost up by end sep 2011.
i am searching for job but sent out many in china/sgp not reply.

i wanted to get into IT banking as i was told it is more stable, at least more $$$
as engineer, i feel i hit the limit, i have not come across a well paid engineer doing coding in singapore, well paid as in 7K. i also had not come across engineer paid over 10K in singapore. i do know ERP/Oracle pays well as some of my peers getting those pay years ago while i am drawing a 4K plus.

i am open to suggestion what to do next and where to go next. i feel i am aimless drifting around and trying means to secure a stable job. i have not shared with my family that my contract is up and i dont want them to be worried abt $$$.

thanks

Originally Posted by aimless74

hi All,

i came to this forum and read thru the thread. interesting to me.
i like to ask for advise and open myself to more option.

my profile: age 37 married with a kid, with parents to support,hdb flat.
EEEng from UK, MBA

back in 1997, after graduated from UK, engineering job (software engineer)
is easy to land a job, i got a job within 2 weeks of sending resume (earning 2.3K) local firm nothing great, it is firmware development. soon within 3 mths i move to another company as classmate recommended. it was linux development (widget) back then it was fun, really enjoy and the passion to do the job right and fast. my effort was recongnised and paid off within 1 year my pay rose from 2.5K-3.2K. maybe not alot but i was happy with effort being recongnise. worked there for 3 yrs and not much career prospect so i went off to and wanted to get into a MNC as least room to move around.

landed a job as a software engineer in a consumer electronics MNC. again i worked my way up, from lower grade, i become a fast paced and high performance engineer, starting 3.5K to 5.5K with perks (travel allowance etc)
been there for 5 yrs and i studied my MBA part time while i was there. i was sent to a few places for months for tech transfer (EU/US). i promoted from software engineer to chief engineer (Assistant Manager/manager)

next i moved on as i was approached to setup a new business department for another MNC which does more OEM/ODM consumer rather than a specific brand.
i see this an opportunity for more exposure and of course more $$$. i went over and built the department. for 2 yrs because of the trend in singapore, manufacturing or R&D or Consumer electronics is doing down trend, the business is not doing well. the department was then being closed, and i was retrenched. lost of job for 2 mths

i keep on searching in 2010 for project manager, project engineer, product manager etc but no reply at all. my skillset was firmware/software development, SDLC and project management. i did not restrict myself to singapore only.
i found a job in china, offering as production manager which is totally not related to my engineering skills, i took it i was paid 7K (it actually breakeven including cpf) but i got no choice but to be in china. i left home a year ago leaving my wife n kid behind, wife is a normal clerical job and kid taken care by my parents. so now this job, again due to downturn, company is not doing well
i signed a 1 year contract and my contract is almost up by end sep 2011.
i am searching for job but sent out many in china/sgp not reply.

i wanted to get into IT banking as i was told it is more stable, at least more $$$
as engineer, i feel i hit the limit, i have not come across a well paid engineer doing coding in singapore, well paid as in 7K. i also had not come across engineer paid over 10K in singapore. i do know ERP/Oracle pays well as some of my peers getting those pay years ago while i am drawing a 4K plus.

i am open to suggestion what to do next and where to go next. i feel i am aimless drifting around and trying means to secure a stable job. i have not shared with my family that my contract is up and i dont want them to be worried abt $$$.

thanks

With your experience, you should try MNCs who are exploring opportunities in ASPAC (esp China)... With US and Europe economy facing issues, many MNCs are shifting their revenue across to ASPAC, try to emphases your experience in your resume....
n if you look at the trend, the lower pay engineers are in SI (even IBM, HP). mid pay (4-6K) are project manager, assistant/delivery manager (unfortunately).. you going to face competition from India/China who are producing them in tons)...

You should pick a domain you are keen on and be specialist in it. (Example: Oil Refining,.. example how to setup plant, operations. Banking: Trade Finance, Consumer Banking, Structure Products, Asset Management....etc) And pick a product company who is market-leader in certain areas... and learn the product well... (I know clients in UK/HK who hire our ex-consultants from my company at 1K EUR a day as contractors)...

I am one those consultant that is drawing 11K a month.. prefer to be niche and continue with consulting ... the business i gain from projects on large Securites Firm, Fund Manager, Asset Management in invaluable....

(I used to be one in a Japan MNCs which is limiting in pay and it is easy to find someone cheaper to replace you from India/China..).. It doesn't help when the mentality of senior MNCs in SG think that the delivery work is easy and should be lowerly paid. Quality is more important than no. I have seen one international providers who lost a 100++mil account when they decide to ship all the indian nationals to manage the account, in the end all of them got terminated.....

[aimless74]

hi unregistered (whoever u are)

thanks for the advise.

with an engineering background on software/firmware, i tried to get into IT
but was rejected, i dont have those banking IT experience.
next i thought of switching career (maybe i should said job now) thur getting a MBA. it does helped me to view a better corporate view and making better decision however it does not help me to switch from engineering background to another IT world or finance or operation role at all.

i am now located in China,Shanghai as a production manager. due to contract expiring, i am searching in china however due to i am not a China nation, the job opportunites goes to them first then consider me. some headhunter contacted me but i dont have the relevant experience which they want, they want mech engineering, automotive engineering, garment manufaturing etc
nothing on software, if it is software, it is more on IT system which i dont experience.

identify a domain, i always want to do business analyst ,however i cant get a opportunity to get into. many attempts failed and with my current age ,getting older, i reckon company are willing to even let me try to do different role in their company as there is no relevant experiences as well as cost.

i really admire u to have a good income and stable of over 10K. i currently could not have that vision that i will ever cross an income of over S$10K in an engineering propsective view.

regards

Originally Posted by Unregistered

With your experience, you should try MNCs who are exploring opportunities in ASPAC (esp China)... With US and Europe economy facing issues, many MNCs are shifting their revenue across to ASPAC, try to emphases your experience in your resume....
n if you look at the trend, the lower pay engineers are in SI (even IBM, HP). mid pay (4-6K) are project manager, assistant/delivery manager (unfortunately).. you going to face competition from India/China who are producing them in tons)...

You should pick a domain you are keen on and be specialist in it. (Example: Oil Refining,.. example how to setup plant, operations. Banking: Trade Finance, Consumer Banking, Structure Products, Asset Management....etc) And pick a product company who is market-leader in certain areas... and learn the product well... (I know clients in UK/HK who hire our ex-consultants from my company at 1K EUR a day as contractors)...

I am one those consultant that is drawing 11K a month.. prefer to be niche and continue with consulting ... the business i gain from projects on large Securites Firm, Fund Manager, Asset Management in invaluable....

(I used to be one in a Japan MNCs which is limiting in pay and it is easy to find someone cheaper to replace you from India/China..).. It doesn't help when the mentality of senior MNCs in SG think that the delivery work is easy and should be lowerly paid. Quality is more important than no. I have seen one international providers who lost a 100++mil account when they decide to ship all the indian nationals to manage the account, in the end all of them got terminated.....

Originally Posted by aimless74

hi unregistered (whoever u are)

i am now located in China,Shanghai as a production manager. due to contract expiring, i am searching in china however due to i am not a China nation, the job opportunites goes to them first then consider me. some headhunter contacted me but i dont have the relevant experience which they want, they want mech engineering, automotive engineering, garment manufaturing etc
nothing on software, if it is software, it is more on IT system which i dont experience.

identify a domain, i always want to do business analyst ,however i cant get a opportunity to get into. many attempts failed and with my current age ,getting older, i reckon company are willing to even let me try to do different role in their company as there is no relevant experiences as well as cost.

regards

don't loose heart, i got a worse start as i got degree in Maths ... came back to find a teaching role and failed... then i found a lowerly paid $2200 contract IT job in 2002 (during dotcom bubble burst)... imagine the horror i have to go thru when i start...

Don't worry about the technical capabilities as that is this is least important. The good product company don't requires brilliant coder (btw no clients don't build from scratch nowsday, it is plug-n-play).. .. 99% of the project is more on your capability to align the business needs to the product capabilities (our main motto: Less is more)......

... the main aspect you need to demostrate during interview is your ability to conceptualise and innovate...

(example: FMCG, Supermarket..etc)....Example: Tesco sells millions of FMCG products from medium-size company Mundella, Dairy Farm.. etc.. a lot of times this smaller companies will need loans to manage their cash flow, bank may view them as high risk. Trade Finance/Risk management comes into play as it is able to measure the monetary values of the deals or trade executed between the group and offer loans to them at minimum risks .... our system is able to demostrate this n the ROI is ....blah blah..

it doesn't mean that you are on the other side of the business, and don't understand how trade financing...