How much are you earning per annum?

So faking false, it is obvious they were arrogant about their status

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lots of argument about the term middle class. Pew research defines middle class in US as between 2/3 median HH income and 2x HH income.
Median HH income in Singapore is 104k inclusive of employer cpf contributions, OT and bonuses ...

the thing is...median hh income, like mean....can be pushed higher by the ultra high income earners.....

i have no problem with some of the people here 'showing off' their wealth (if it's true or not bullsh!tting)....

but i refuse to believe that an owner of a household with asset of 1.5million, no loans, annual revenue of 300k, CPF of half a million, have no clue whether they are rich or poor. I always believe that reasonably high-income earners are smart people and these people actually goes against this believe of mine with those posts..

So it leads me to 3 possible conclusion:

- These people are just bullsh!tting and pulling the numbers out of their a$$
OR/AND
- These people need other online peasants to strike their ego by calling them 'rich'..
OR/AND
- These people are just dumb

Take it if you will.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

just to share our financials. both me & wife are mid 40s.
1.own a 3 bedroom condo value at $1.3m. No loan.
2.cpf and cash $1.0m. waiting for property market to crash
3.1 year old luxury car. no loan

i guess we are just middle class

You are in the high, upper class of our local society.

Well done.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

the thing is...median hh income, like mean....can be pushed higher by the ultra high income earners.....

Agree that with mean, the average will be pulled up by high income fellas. Not so with median. Unless, of course, 50% of the population are 'high income earners'.

I think we used middle class households to mean middle income households. For young countries like ours, it makes no difference to switch between the two. But for European countries where they have a long history of royalties and the upper classes, there is a difference between what you are born into and what you earn.

For many of the upper class in these countries, they may not even have earned income. They get their "incomes" from their inheritance and investments.

Back to income banding, the middle income band is actually very wide. In the US, it can mean a household income from US$50K to US$300k pa. Likewise in Singapore, the middle income household could be one earning S$60K to S$500K pa.

We are indignant when someone who earns S$250k pa tells us he is just average. Actually he is not wrong. There is a study that shows that people of a certain income class tended to congregate together, ie stay in the same neighbourhood. It is a natural phenomenon occurring everywhere in the world. Thats why you have rich neighbourhoods and poor neighbourhoods.

So for a "rich" guy staying in a rich neighbourhood, he look around him and see that everyone around him has the same thing. Maybe he is staying in a condo. He sees that his neighbour also has a car or two, goes for annual overseas vacation, has a maid etc..

So to him, he sees himself as average.

Some people are insecure and need others to post and say "You are doing well" in order to feel good about themselves.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

just to share our financials. both me & wife are mid 40s.
1.own a 3 bedroom condo value at $1.3m. No loan.
2.cpf and cash $1.0m. waiting for property market to crash
3.1 year old luxury car. no loan

i guess we are just middle class

When property market crash, what will you do?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think we used middle class households to mean middle income households. For young countries like ours, it makes no difference to switch between the two. But for European countries where they have a long history of royalties and the upper classes, there is a difference between what you are born into and what you earn.

For many of the upper class in these countries, they may not even have earned income. They get their "incomes" from their inheritance and investments.

Back to income banding, the middle income band is actually very wide. In the US, it can mean a household income from US$50K to US$300k pa. Likewise in Singapore, the middle income household could be one earning S$60K to S$500K pa.

We are indignant when someone who earns S$250k pa tells us he is just average. Actually he is not wrong. There is a study that shows that people of a certain income class tended to congregate together, ie stay in the same neighbourhood. It is a natural phenomenon occurring everywhere in the world. Thats why you have rich neighbourhoods and poor neighbourhoods.

So for a "rich" guy staying in a rich neighbourhood, he look around him and see that everyone around him has the same thing. Maybe he is staying in a condo. He sees that his neighbour also has a car or two, goes for annual overseas vacation, has a maid etc..

So to him, he sees himself as average.

i don't think i completely agrees with you on your example especially given singapore's context. It may make sense in other countries like UK or US where there are people living in the suburbs vs cities. Just because somebody living beside River Thames in London doesn't mean he or she is well to do and can be the lower class. However, a person in Singapore living in. let's say around river valley is most probably not poor.

Singapore is just too small to fulfill that type of example you mentioned. Also, how is it possible that a person/HH with 300k income pa don't watch the news or read the papers at all? Or visit a food court?

I work Raffles Place with formal attire for the longest time and yet it doesn't mean that every one that works in raffles place with a suit and a tie is a highflyer.

Most or all of us here in this forum are in the middle class group in Singapore.

From the engineer who earns $3.5k pm to the banking professional who earns $15k pm, I think they are all middle class. The upper class earn incomes of more than $30k pm and many live in landed.

The low income class are those earning less than $1.5k pm.

I certainly am in the middle class group.

My HH income (combined income with spouse) is $186k pa. I live in an OCR condo currently worth $900k and I drive a cheap car. All paid up.

Our combined net worth is $1.4m. No debt.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Agree that with mean, the average will be pulled up by high income fellas. Not so with median. Unless, of course, 50% of the population are 'high income earners'.

fark u mathemathesian you had to explain median to roon my happynass.