Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hello. My fellow liti friends have told me that starting off in liti helps when they eventually jump to the Corporate side. However it may be difficult to make the jump since you have no experience and what can you offer the firms with your liti background? Besides, what's stopping the firms (i am assuming the big 4s) from hiring another fresh trainee at 2k a month given both of you probably have the same amount of experience?

I started off in corporate. Dont think i made the wrong decision. Made a move to international after 2 years. Some of my friends in liti were keen to join Corporate but could not find a space within the firm / other big 4s.

I think if u some how managed to join the big 4 after 2 years in liti, i think they would still pay you the equivalent rate despite your luck of experience.

Hey there, I was the OP. Thank you for your inputs

Unfortunately, I didn't manage to secure a TC with any big 4 corporate depts. Would it be advisable to apply to the big 4s or other reputable mid-sized corp firms during my training period then? What are the odds that these firms will be taking in fresh assocs without any "relevant" training in the first place during this period?

Alternatively, would it be viable to join an in-house dept after 1-2 years of liti experience? Would a few years of in-house experience bolster my chance of switching over to the corporate practice of a law firm?

When I was training, I regretted not applying to other firms during my training period. You will never know if your current law firm will retain you (please don't take the risk). I think it would be easier to jump when you are freshly called to the bar. Chances of the firm (at least the big 4 I trained + worked in) taking in fresh assocs are quite high - the current trainees may leave for "greener pastures" or may not be retained due to their performances. No harm applying when you are still training - many people do that.

I personally feel it would be difficult to join an in-house with litigation experience. In-house counsels typically draft + review commercial contracts. The company would hire a litigation firm should there be any contentious disputes.

However, I do have friends who managed to go in-house with a litigation background (not as many as my corporate friends). It would be VERY DIFFICULT (if not impossible) to join back the private practice after going in-house. It is a one-way street and NOT RECOMMENDED at all if you harbour hopes of joining corporate again. Stick to your liti role (if you can't change it now) and just try to apply every now and then. I feel that the longer you are in the liti role, the more difficult it gets to cross over to the corporate side.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hey there, I was the OP. Thank you for your inputs

Unfortunately, I didn't manage to secure a TC with any big 4 corporate depts. Would it be advisable to apply to the big 4s or other reputable mid-sized corp firms during my training period then? What are the odds that these firms will be taking in fresh assocs without any "relevant" training in the first place during this period?

Alternatively, would it be viable to join an in-house dept after 1-2 years of liti experience? Would a few years of in-house experience bolster my chance of switching over to the corporate practice of a law firm?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When I was training, I regretted not applying to other firms during my training period. You will never know if your current law firm will retain you (please don't take the risk). I think it would be easier to jump when you are freshly called to the bar. Chances of the firm (at least the big 4 I trained + worked in) taking in fresh assocs are quite high - the current trainees may leave for "greener pastures" or may not be retained due to their performances. No harm applying when you are still training - many people do that.

I personally feel it would be difficult to join an in-house with litigation experience. In-house counsels typically draft + review commercial contracts. The company would hire a litigation firm should there be any contentious disputes.

However, I do have friends who managed to go in-house with a litigation background (not as many as my corporate friends). It would be VERY DIFFICULT (if not impossible) to join back the private practice after going in-house. It is a one-way street and NOT RECOMMENDED at all if you harbour hopes of joining corporate again. Stick to your liti role (if you can't change it now) and just try to apply every now and then. I feel that the longer you are in the liti role, the more difficult it gets to cross over to the corporate side.

Hey, really helpful advice there! (even though it's not applicable to me). Just wondering if I could have your thoughts on my current situation, which i posted on the previous pg:

I was not retained in one of the local big firms (although I expected it due to manpower issue). Could I ask when's the best time to apply for an Associate position considering that I will only be called next March since I still have Part B to do later this year? Hope to get a spot in similar big firms or mid-size if possible. Thanks

There is no "best time" to apply. It honestly depends on the team - whether they required people and if you happened to apply at the time the window is open. Get to know people within the team you are keen to apply to, and ask them if they are hiring. No matter how brillant you are, if there is no vacancy, it would not translate to a job offer.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hey, really helpful advice there! (even though it's not applicable to me). Just wondering if I could have your thoughts on my current situation, which i posted on the previous pg:

I was not retained in one of the local big firms (although I expected it due to manpower issue). Could I ask when's the best time to apply for an Associate position considering that I will only be called next March since I still have Part B to do later this year? Hope to get a spot in similar big firms or mid-size if possible. Thanks

Originally Posted by Unregistered

There is no "best time" to apply. It honestly depends on the team - whether they required people and if you happened to apply at the time the window is open. Get to know people within the team you are keen to apply to, and ask them if they are hiring. No matter how brillant you are, if there is no vacancy, it would not translate to a job offer.

Thanks for this! I had the same thought but glad you reaffirmed it. I guess it's really about the team and timing then. Seeing that I will be called next March, maybe I can make soft enquiry about vacancy in Oct? I don't mind being a legal exec in Jan before they consider me for an assoc position.

Good luck! All's not lost Don't feel that you are not good enough just because you are not retained. This is only one small set back. Continue to make enquiries until you get called. All the best!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks for this! I had the same thought but glad you reaffirmed it. I guess it's really about the team and timing then. Seeing that I will be called next March, maybe I can make soft enquiry about vacancy in Oct? I don't mind being a legal exec in Jan before they consider me for an assoc position.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Good luck! All's not lost Don't feel that you are not good enough just because you are not retained. This is only one small set back. Continue to make enquiries until you get called. All the best!

Thanks a lot! Appreciate it Yeah, that's what I was told too by one of the nicer partners. OK I'll do just that!

Hi for those aspiring lawyers who didn't get retained or can't get places, would like to advise you that now may be good time to look at other vocations or career paths.

The hard truth is that the industry can't support so many new entrants, and with the costs pressures from clients and older dinosaur partners still hanging around.

The legal industry is going thru a structural transition not only here but globally. Whether this state of affairs will continue to persist is anyone's guess. In 5 to 10 years time, the number of new lawyers needed may be drastically reduced due to technology and legal software. Or maybe it won't. You may be advised to "ride out" this tough time, but do you necessarily want to put your career on hold?

The question to ask yourself is this: is there a compelling reason for you wanting to be a lawyer? Or is it merely because this is the well trodden path you have seen your seniors and peers take? This well trodden path is steadily eroding because of a lack of jobs and cost pressures on legal services.

If you find yourself struggling to find a real compelling reason to stay on, I would really encourage many of you to transit out to other fields. Your law degree isn't "wasted" by not practicing law. It will serve you well in a variety of fields

I know law school generally does a poor job of career education and letting students know what is out there wivh is why yhere is a perception thar law grads are "entitled" and fail to cope with the vagaries of the marketplace. This is not your fault. It all stems from the Conservative nature of being in a protected profession. Law students and lawyers are in general less hungry and entrepreneurial than those from other areas of the corporate world.

The bulk of the legwork in taking charge of your career is on your own shoulders.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi for those aspiring lawyers who didn't get retained or can't get places, would like to advise you that now may be good time to look at other vocations or career paths.

The hard truth is that the industry can't support so many new entrants, and with the costs pressures from clients and older dinosaur partners still hanging around.

The legal industry is going thru a structural transition not only here but globally. Whether this state of affairs will continue to persist is anyone's guess. In 5 to 10 years time, the number of new lawyers needed may be drastically reduced due to technology and legal software. Or maybe it won't. You may be advised to "ride out" this tough time, but do you necessarily want to put your career on hold?

The question to ask yourself is this: is there a compelling reason for you wanting to be a lawyer? Or is it merely because this is the well trodden path you have seen your seniors and peers take? This well trodden path is steadily eroding because of a lack of jobs and cost pressures on legal services.

If you find yourself struggling to find a real compelling reason to stay on, I would really encourage many of you to transit out to other fields. Your law degree isn't "wasted" by not practicing law. It will serve you well in a variety of fields

I know law school generally does a poor job of career education and letting students know what is out there wivh is why yhere is a perception thar law grads are "entitled" and fail to cope with the vagaries of the marketplace. This is not your fault. It all stems from the Conservative nature of being in a protected profession. Law students and lawyers are in general less hungry and entrepreneurial than those from other areas of the corporate world.

The bulk of the legwork in taking charge of your career is on your own shoulders.

What you have mentioned adds nothing new.

It would certainly be more helpful to elucidate on what other alternative paths you are referring to, the odds of pursuing these other paths having regard to, among other factors: (1) the number of applicants; (2) relevance of a law degree; (3) possibility that other degrees (e.g. economics) are valued more in the alternative path.

TC for family law dept in mid sized firm.

a) Is it too much of a risk to take since it may be difficult to apply to other areas of practice?

b) Any ideas on the salary range for those practising family law?