Job Application with MOE (non-teaching position)

Originally Posted by KPO

Need all your advice please…

I have 18 years of working experience of which ten years was in the government sector. Decided to come back and make Civil Service my last stop. Hence I chose MOE and applied for Admin Mgr position through Careers@GOV. The closing date for application was 26 November 2017.

14 October - I applied through Careers@GOV website.

17 November - Status in Careers@GOV reflected as SHORTLISTED. I received a call from HR for first interview. Took the opportunity to enquire on the recruitment and interview process. HR advised that depending on the composition of the interview panel, a second interview maybe necessary.

22 November - Attended 1st Interview. Interview went well and was informed that the position would commence either January or February 2018. I presumed there were 2 positions available. Interview panel consisted of

- a Principal (xxx Primary School)
- a Vice Principal (xxx Secondary School)
- a different HR staff

23 November - The following day, HR asked for more information on past employment and I was advised to wait a further two to three weeks.

Two weeks of no news.

14 December - HR called to enquire on last salary drawn, AWS, PB details from my last employment.

Based on the above, please share your thoughts...

- Was an interim decision made (to-hire-who-for-which-school) right after the first interview? There were 3 other candidates before me during the first interview.
- During the two weeks of no news, HR was conducting the various checks?
- Will HR advise if I am unsuccessful?
- What are my chances of securing the job?

I have to say, the HR staff from MOE has been most courteous, patient and professional throughout our correspondence.

Thank you for reading.

Usually if rejected the bot will auto send a rejection email. I suggest you not try to make wild speculations on what is happening behind the scenes - no way to verify and just ownself make ownself panic for no reason.

I think you have a chance, but not a high one. Main issue is admin manager this sort of level really isn't what someone with 18 years of experience should be applying for. This is pretty much an entry level position for degrees ~2 years exp and those with diploma ~5 years exp.

Maybe you have other priorities in life and don't mind taking up a much lower level position and pay, but sometimes the supervisor will be quite concern and turn off as he/she don't really know why you want to take up such a job and whether you are just using them as spare tyre and will run off the moment you secure another job more reflective of your level.

Just continue do what you are doing. No need to get so hung up as out of your control anyway.

[KPO]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Usually if rejected the bot will auto send a rejection email. I suggest you not try to make wild speculations on what is happening behind the scenes - no way to verify and just ownself make ownself panic for no reason.

I think you have a chance, but not a high one. Main issue is admin manager this sort of level really isn't what someone with 18 years of experience should be applying for. This is pretty much an entry level position for degrees ~2 years exp and those with diploma ~5 years exp.

Maybe you have other priorities in life and don't mind taking up a much lower level position and pay, but sometimes the supervisor will be quite concern and turn off as he/she don't really know why you want to take up such a job and whether you are just using them as spare tyre and will run off the moment you secure another job more reflective of your level.

Just continue do what you are doing. No need to get so hung up as out of your control anyway.

Thank you for your reply...

And for most part of what you've said, you were actually quite right...truth is, I no longer desire to be in senior management. I am happy to share my past experiences and contribute at a lower level.

I did subtly convey the above message and my desire to make MOE my last career stop during the interview...as for the wait, you are right too, no need to get overly hung up about it.

I just needed to hear that from someone...thank you.

Originally Posted by KPO

Thank you for your reply...

And for most part of what you've said, you were actually quite right...truth is, I no longer desire to be in senior management. I am happy to share my past experiences and contribute at a lower level.

I did subtly convey the above message and my desire to make MOE my last career stop during the interview...as for the wait, you are right too, no need to get overly hung up about it.

I just needed to hear that from someone...thank you.

I can understand where you are coming from, but there is a big difference between not wanting to progress to senior management and actually applying for an entry level job.

TBH if I'm the hirer I will also be suspicious of your motivations. Are you here to just pass time while waiting for a proper offer? Are you here just to slack by choosing work that is obviously way below what you can do? Did you not progress outside and learn anything that's why need to start from basic admin? etc. You get the idea.

Anyway nothing much to do except wait. But more importantly my advice going forward is if you want to find a slow moving, relaxing, work life balance, less stress job, it's OK to apply for jobs in civil service that are a bit lower than your exp (maybe around AD level), but to jump all the way back to entry level admin will make you over qualified and ironically lower your chances of getting the offer.

My 2c.

[KPO]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I can understand where you are coming from, but there is a big difference between not wanting to progress to senior management and actually applying for an entry level job.

TBH if I'm the hirer I will also be suspicious of your motivations. Are you here to just pass time while waiting for a proper offer? Are you here just to slack by choosing work that is obviously way below what you can do? Did you not progress outside and learn anything that's why need to start from basic admin? etc. You get the idea.

Anyway nothing much to do except wait. But more importantly my advice going forward is if you want to find a slow moving, relaxing, work life balance, less stress job, it's OK to apply for jobs in civil service that are a bit lower than your exp (maybe around AD level), but to jump all the way back to entry level admin will make you over qualified and ironically lower your chances of getting the offer.

My 2c.

You see...aside from the first 10 years with a different ministry....my last 8 years was in senior management roles within the non profit sector (was an Assistant Director, General Manager and Executive Director). HR did clarify that they could meet my last drawn...so in terms of salary, it must be at the ceiling cap if appointed. Not really entry level in terms of pay.

Job scope wise, I believe I can excel given my past experiences in senior management roles...I am known to be on the ball so slacking isn't in my vocabulary. I hope to improve on internal work processes and help the Principal run the school more efficiently, in terms of administration and operations, making life easier for the Principal and the teachers...so that the latter can focus more on their students....definitely not entry level mentality and a different perspective from yours, altogether.

Originally Posted by KPO

You see...aside from the first 10 years with a different ministry....my last 8 years was in senior management roles within the non profit sector (was an Assistant Director, General Manager and Executive Director). HR did clarify that they could meet my last drawn...so in terms of salary, it must be at the ceiling cap if appointed. Not really entry level in terms of pay.

Job scope wise, I believe I can excel given my past experiences in senior management roles...I am known to be on the ball so slacking isn't in my vocabulary. I hope to improve on internal work processes and help the Principal run the school more efficiently, in terms of administration and operations, making life easier for the Principal and the teachers...so that the latter can focus more on their students....definitely not entry level mentality and a different perspective from yours, altogether.

Admin manager in a school is a nice term for office executive in the private sector. If all these fancy career aspirations you describe are real, you are applying for the wrong job. As a pao ka liao administrator in the school, you are expected to follow SOP and perform standard office duties, not designing policy or strategy on how to support the school better.

Also I'm a bit puzzled that you said you have extensive experience at the senior management level and currently a GM and Executive Director but somehow HR say they can match your current pay. Very strange. How much are you drawing currently? I would think a GM/ED is at minimal somewhere 12-15k, no way can fit in even if it's at the cap.

GM should apply for DD and above in MOE, even if you want to take it somewhere lower I would think VP (administration) in the school is about the lowest you can go.

I've never heard of a GM/ED from another place apply for a school admin manager before... Not even as a retirement 'pass time' job...

Originally Posted by KPO

You see...aside from the first 10 years with a different ministry....my last 8 years was in senior management roles within the non profit sector (was an Assistant Director, General Manager and Executive Director). HR did clarify that they could meet my last drawn...so in terms of salary, it must be at the ceiling cap if appointed. Not really entry level in terms of pay.

Job scope wise, I believe I can excel given my past experiences in senior management roles...I am known to be on the ball so slacking isn't in my vocabulary. I hope to improve on internal work processes and help the Principal run the school more efficiently, in terms of administration and operations, making life easier for the Principal and the teachers...so that the latter can focus more on their students....definitely not entry level mentality and a different perspective from yours, altogether.

Admin manager in a school is a nice term for office executive in the private sector. If all these fancy career aspirations you describe are real, you are applying for the wrong job. As a pao ka liao administrator in the school, you are expected to follow SOP and perform standard office duties, not designing policy or strategy on how to support the school better.

Also I'm a bit puzzled that you said you have extensive experience at the senior management level and currently a GM and Executive Director but somehow HR say they can match your current pay. Very strange. How much are you drawing currently? I would think a GM/ED is at minimal somewhere 12-15k, no way can fit in even if it's at the cap.

GM should apply for DD and above in MOE, even if you want to take it somewhere lower I would think VP (administration) in the school is about the lowest you can go.

I've never heard of a GM/ED from another place apply for a school admin manager before... Not even as a retirement 'pass time' job...

-delete post-

Originally Posted by KPO

You see...aside from the first 10 years with a different ministry....my last 8 years was in senior management roles within the non profit sector (was an Assistant Director, General Manager and Executive Director). HR did clarify that they could meet my last drawn...so in terms of salary, it must be at the ceiling cap if appointed. Not really entry level in terms of pay.

Job scope wise, I believe I can excel given my past experiences in senior management roles...I am known to be on the ball so slacking isn't in my vocabulary. I hope to improve on internal work processes and help the Principal run the school more efficiently, in terms of administration and operations, making life easier for the Principal and the teachers...so that the latter can focus more on their students....definitely not entry level mentality and a different perspective from yours, altogether.

AM is a nice term for office executive in the private sector. Base on your career aspirations, you are applying for the wrong job. AMs mostly follow SOP and perform general duties, nothing to do with designing policy or strategy on how to support the school better.

I'm puzzled that you have extensive experience at the senior management level and currently a GM and Executive Director but HR say they can match your last drawn. How much are you drawing currently? I would think a GM/ED is at minimal somewhere 12-15k, no way AM can fit in.

You should apply for DD or D in MOE, even if you want to take it somewhere lower I would think VP (admin) in the school is the lowest you can go.

I've never heard of a GM/ED apply for AM before... Not even as a retirement 'pass time' job...

[KPO]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

AM is a nice term for office executive in the private sector. Base on your career aspirations, you are applying for the wrong job. AMs mostly follow SOP and perform general duties, nothing to do with designing policy or strategy on how to support the school better.

I'm puzzled that you have extensive experience at the senior management level and currently a GM and Executive Director but HR say they can match your last drawn. How much are you drawing currently? I would think a GM/ED is at minimal somewhere 12-15k, no way AM can fit in.

You should apply for DD or D in MOE, even if you want to take it somewhere lower I would think VP (admin) in the school is the lowest you can go.

I've never heard of a GM/ED apply for AM before... Not even as a retirement 'pass time' job...

In our local non profit sector, no GM or ED's salary has ever hit 100K per annum...thanks to NKF...the highest I gotten was 7.5K. I took a pay cut of 1K for my last drawn.

Also, the AM post at MOE would be a foundation posting and since I am changing industry, I am happy to start somewhere, anywhere.

I am going to hit the big 50 in a couple of years time...how about some encouragement for me...I know you meant well...but trust me, its lonely at the top and when I look back at those times when I was a young officer, I really miss the camaraderie among staff level.

Originally Posted by KPO

In our local non profit sector, no GM or ED's salary has ever hit 100K per annum...thanks to NKF...the highest I gotten was 7.5K. I took a pay cut of 1K for my last drawn.

Also, the AM post at MOE would be a foundation posting and since I am changing industry, I am happy to start somewhere, anywhere.

I am going to hit the big 50 in a couple of years time...how about some encouragement for me...I know you meant well...but trust me, its lonely at the top and when I look back at those times when I was a young officer, I really miss the camaraderie among staff level.

Hi, my friend told me that for admin managers they usually want a female staff.. is it true?, are u a female?.. just curious..