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  #3711 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2014, 06:53 PM
towers
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Originally Posted by name_less_user View Post
I wanted to practise what I've learned from my years of engineering training, which explained why I did not take up the statutory board offer at that instance.

Looking back, the whole episode made me a more resilient and composed individual. I've enjoyed the joys of working in a cohesive team and participated in stimulating technology development projects.

But I unreservedly agree with you that I suffered a financial penalty for my decision. Nonetheless, I've to ultimately put food on the table and a tenure beyond my bond with the company is unsustainable.

Wonder if anyone can shed some light on my queries?
1) Would my background and experience be deemed unattractive or irrelevant to public agencies?

2) Also, I would like to hear everyone's comments on whether my current unattractive package would undermine the terms of any offer that I might receive from the public service agencies.

3) What would be the likely job grade and pay package that I should expect?
1) Civil service is generalistic. Your background/experience shouldn't matter, especially if you're going into policy/strategy side. I had zero relevant experience, and I still got the job.

2) civil service is also pretty fair with pay. They will not undercut you just because you are on a much lower package now. It will be comensurate with your qualifications and experience.

3) I was an overseas scholar too, top student from a top London uni. I left in between to join the private sector, then rejoined the service with about 7 years working experience. I was offered slightly more than 6.5k base. Average annual bonuses at my board are 4-5 months. I got about 7 months in my first year. I reckon you should get offered around 5.5-6k. Hence your annual should easily hit at least 80k.

In fact, I think you would be looked on favorably for having chosen to serve out your bond. Shows that you are not a job hopper.

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  #3712 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2014, 07:02 PM
towers
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I applied for so many positions for the past few months and didn't get called up for interview at all. The status got a few "unsuccessful/kept for future reference" and the rest are still "submitted".

What did I do wrong here?

I am applying for those assistant director/deputy director/director and asking 8k.

Reasonable?
You are probably pricing yourself out of the market. How many years of exp do you have / what is your current base?

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  #3713 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2014, 07:46 PM
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Actually a lot of you here are wrong.

Because UK engineering degrees are only 3 years, graduates from UK universities must take 1-year masters degree before being recognised by the engineering board here in singapore. Technically, on an engineering standpoint, an engineering masters from the UK is actually equivalent to an honours engineering degree here in SG. Well, this is true as of now, not sure what it was like 6-7 years ago.

Even if your bachelors was from UCL or ICL, the PEB here will still not recognise you as an accredited engineer, because they feel that the short 3-year curriculum is not substantial enough to call yourself an engineer. The 4 year degrees here by NUS/NTU actually cover more and hence, is equivalent to a masters in UK. The masters degree that is undertaken in the UK is also merely coursework. So its quite like a 4th year here under NUS/NTU.
his master is from nus tho.

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  #3714 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2014, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by name_less_user View Post
Hi Esteemed Forumers,

I'm in the midst of considering a mid-career switch to the public service.

Having experienced the vicissitudes of my career progression in the private sector, where I've been short changed, thrown into the deep end of the pool and left to my own devices in an extremely stagnant environment, the stability and security of a public service career too appeals to me.

My background:
- Diploma with Merit in Mechanical Engineering (Top student, received LKY Award).

- Overseas scholarship awarded by a statutory board in collaboration with an industry partner.

- 1st Class BEng (Hons) in Mechanical Engineering UMIST, UK. (Top student, top university project).

- MSc Mechanical Engineering, NUS.

- Original arrangement was for me to serve my 6 year bond with the said industry partner. However, they decided to cease their operations in Singapore before my graduation. At that juncture, the statutory board immediately intervened and I made a conscious decision to have my bond transferred to a semiconductor company for industrial exposure and practice instead of taking up the offer to join the statutory board.

- Spent 6 years engaging in semiconductor technology development and systems strategy and design.

- Current annual package is a very modest $55000 (includes AWS + less than 2 months bonus).

- Now exploring public service opportunities in policy formulation, organisational development or research and analysis.

Queries
1) Would my background and experience be deemed unattractive or irrelevant to public agencies?

2) Also, I would like to hear everyone's comments on whether my current unattractive package would undermine the terms of any offer that I might receive from the public service agencies.

3) What would be the likely job grade and pay package that I should expect?


Cheers & Thanks!
Hi. I am in a very similar predicament. Like me share my experience. I graduated from NUS Mechanical Engineering with a 1st Class Honours. Like many outstanding engineering graduates, I joined a big aviation MNC with the envy of many of my coursemates.

Soon, I find myself working from Mon-Sat and near to 12 hours a day (typical of engineers). I had what it takes in the company. Team was great and lots of exposure to projects. However, promotion seems far away as there are simply so many FT engineers slogging out hard. I had no time for anyone, including my family. Remuneration wise, I average $46k per annum as a junior engineer.

Fast forward 2 years, I made a difficult decision to jump to public service. I applied to one of the statboard as a policy executive. Things took a great turn. I was offered a salary of $4500 after confirmation. Average about 4.5 months bonus including AWS. I am making close to $75k per annum and $29k more than my previous job. I was rewarded financially but work was dull.

I did not regret the decision. Not only did I make $29k more, I had more time for myself and my family. I work from 8.00am to 5.00pm everyday, exactly what I am paid for. I did my best at work but also had a good balance of life with my family.

On weekends, I invest prudently with my salary. Many of my friends actually questioned my decision and believed I would do well outside with a 1st Class. I beg to differ. I merely trade it off for time to do my own things.

I do understand that my salary would eventually hit the ceiling in the statboard,. I don't mind. I continue to draw $9k/month with 8 hours of work and do my own investment outside. Who knows I might get successful and able to quite my job?

If I stayed in the engineering company, no doubts I would do well, but I would still continue with my pathetic salary and increment, slogging out 12 hours a day, 6 days per week.
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  #3715 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2014, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by towers View Post
1) Civil service is generalistic. Your background/experience shouldn't matter, especially if you're going into policy/strategy side. I had zero relevant experience, and I still got the job.

2) civil service is also pretty fair with pay. They will not undercut you just because you are on a much lower package now. It will be comensurate with your qualifications and experience.

3) I was an overseas scholar too, top student from a top London uni. I left in between to join the private sector, then rejoined the service with about 7 years working experience. I was offered slightly more than 6.5k base. Average annual bonuses at my board are 4-5 months. I got about 7 months in my first year. I reckon you should get offered around 5.5-6k. Hence your annual should easily hit at least 80k.

In fact, I think you would be looked on favorably for having chosen to serve out your bond. Shows that you are not a job hopper.
Thank you for your insightful post and comprehensive details. Similarities in our backgrounds made your remarks all the more relevant.

It is reassuring to note that the public service does not leverage indiscriminately on one's last drawn pay check.

Based on your personal experience, the public service package is indisputably fairer. More importantly, I'm relieved and reassured that a mid-career entrant's competencies and experience will be reasonably and consistently evaluated.

The information that you've provided reinforces my decision to consider the public service as a viable career choice.

Thanks!
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  #3716 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2014, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi. I am in a very similar predicament. Like me share my experience. I graduated from NUS Mechanical Engineering with a 1st Class Honours. Like many outstanding engineering graduates, I joined a big aviation MNC with the envy of many of my coursemates.

Soon, I find myself working from Mon-Sat and near to 12 hours a day (typical of engineers). I had what it takes in the company. Team was great and lots of exposure to projects. However, promotion seems far away as there are simply so many FT engineers slogging out hard. I had no time for anyone, including my family. Remuneration wise, I average $46k per annum as a junior engineer.

Fast forward 2 years, I made a difficult decision to jump to public service. I applied to one of the statboard as a policy executive. Things took a great turn. I was offered a salary of $4500 after confirmation. Average about 4.5 months bonus including AWS. I am making close to $75k per annum and $29k more than my previous job. I was rewarded financially but work was dull.

I did not regret the decision. Not only did I make $29k more, I had more time for myself and my family. I work from 8.00am to 5.00pm everyday, exactly what I am paid for. I did my best at work but also had a good balance of life with my family.

On weekends, I invest prudently with my salary. Many of my friends actually questioned my decision and believed I would do well outside with a 1st Class. I beg to differ. I merely trade it off for time to do my own things.

I do understand that my salary would eventually hit the ceiling in the statboard,. I don't mind. I continue to draw $9k/month with 8 hours of work and do my own investment outside. Who knows I might get successful and able to quite my job?

If I stayed in the engineering company, no doubts I would do well, but I would still continue with my pathetic salary and increment, slogging out 12 hours a day, 6 days per week.
Thanks for sharing your experience and we can definitely relate well to each other pertaining to perceived prospects in reputable engineering MNCs.

I'm grateful to hear of the antecedent recounted by you. It parallels my circumstances and offers valuable reference on thepossible ballpark remuneration in the public service for mid-career engineers.

Thanks!
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  #3717 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2014, 10:07 PM
towers
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi. I am in a very similar predicament. Like me share my experience. I graduated from NUS Mechanical Engineering with a 1st Class Honours. Like many outstanding engineering graduates, I joined a big aviation MNC with the envy of many of my coursemates.

Soon, I find myself working from Mon-Sat and near to 12 hours a day (typical of engineers). I had what it takes in the company. Team was great and lots of exposure to projects. However, promotion seems far away as there are simply so many FT engineers slogging out hard. I had no time for anyone, including my family. Remuneration wise, I average $46k per annum as a junior engineer.

Fast forward 2 years, I made a difficult decision to jump to public service. I applied to one of the statboard as a policy executive. Things took a great turn. I was offered a salary of $4500 after confirmation. Average about 4.5 months bonus including AWS. I am making close to $75k per annum and $29k more than my previous job. I was rewarded financially but work was dull.

I did not regret the decision. Not only did I make $29k more, I had more time for myself and my family. I work from 8.00am to 5.00pm everyday, exactly what I am paid for. I did my best at work but also had a good balance of life with my family.

On weekends, I invest prudently with my salary. Many of my friends actually questioned my decision and believed I would do well outside with a 1st Class. I beg to differ. I merely trade it off for time to do my own things.

I do understand that my salary would eventually hit the ceiling in the statboard,. I don't mind. I continue to draw $9k/month with 8 hours of work and do my own investment outside. Who knows I might get successful and able to quite my job?

If I stayed in the engineering company, no doubts I would do well, but I would still continue with my pathetic salary and increment, slogging out 12 hours a day, 6 days per week.
9k is a fantastic salary. Is that annualized or your base? May I ask how long you've been working in order to hit that salary? I reckon you must have been promoted at least once or twice to get there.

I think I'm close to hitting the ceiling for my pay grade and have been plateau-ing the past couple of years. But I think I'm too young to be promoted to the next grade yet, so looks like I will hover around my salary grade for a while.
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  #3718 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2014, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by towers View Post
You are probably pricing yourself out of the market. How many years of exp do you have / what is your current base?
Finally someone is answering my queries.

I have about 9 years of experience and I'm drawing around 120k pa. Last drawn salary is 7.5k
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  #3719 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2014, 07:06 PM
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Hi

May I ask how long would ministry take to make an offer after second round of interview?
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  #3720 (permalink)  
Old 13-05-2014, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Actually a lot of you here are wrong.

Because UK engineering degrees are only 3 years, graduates from UK universities must take 1-year masters degree before being recognised by the engineering board here in singapore. Technically, on an engineering standpoint, an engineering masters from the UK is actually equivalent to an honours engineering degree here in SG. Well, this is true as of now, not sure what it was like 6-7 years ago.

Even if your bachelors was from UCL or ICL, the PEB here will still not recognise you as an accredited engineer, because they feel that the short 3-year curriculum is not substantial enough to call yourself an engineer. The 4 year degrees here by NUS/NTU actually cover more and hence, is equivalent to a masters in UK. The masters degree that is undertaken in the UK is also merely coursework. So its quite like a 4th year here under NUS/NTU.
I would like to add on to your earlier statements to provide more clarity for anyone who might have chanced upon this thread for information on local/UK engineering degrees or professional qualifications following graduation.

UK mechanical engineering graduates typically pursue the CEng professional qualification, which is akin to the PE status earned by mechanical engineering practitioners in Singapore.

Undergraduate engineering degrees in the UK are offered as a 3 year BEng or 4 year MEng programme. Both constitute undergraduate degrees, including the 4 year undergraduate MEng course. A student receives post graduate qualification only through the successful completion of a distinctly separate post graduate Masters programme.

UK undergraduate MEng courses give students the requisite educational base to achieve CEng status. Accredited BEng courses necessitate the completion of further study in order to accomplish the same status, which could take the form of full or part-time postgraduate study, distance learning, or work-based learning.

For both tracks, engineers must acquire relevant experience and professional development before the CEng title is conferred. Readers who are interested may refer to the link for a flowchart on the routes to registration as a professional engineer in the UK. (http://www.engc.org.uk/engcdocuments...gistration.pdf)

In Singapore, the Chartered Engineer certification caters to those who are in engineering disciplines that are not eligible for registration as a Professional Engineer. The Chartered Engineer is a voluntary scheme, whereas the Professional Engineer path is a requirement by law.

PEB Singapore published a notification stipulating that UK BEng/MEng degrees accredited by the UK Engineering Council are approved qualifications that satisfy their academic criteria for aspirants of the PE title. (PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS (APPROVED QUALIFICATIONS) NOTIFICATION 2009)

Although the 3 year BEng degree in the UK is shorter than the 4 year BEng offered by NUS/NTU, it is structured as a comprehensive, rigorous and intensely compacted programme that grants internationally recognised credentials for most types of professional qualification.

Cheers!
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