Really that bad for engineers?

my cousin fresh grad 2nd upper NUS drawing a starting pay of $3650 as a hardware engineer in one of the well known local company. Not lying and I find this a very good starting pay for a fresh grad.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

my cousin fresh grad 2nd upper NUS drawing a starting pay of $3650 as a hardware engineer in one of the well known local company. Not lying and I find this a very good starting pay for a fresh grad.

the key words are "starting pay". the pay and career progression will stay stagnant and fail to catch up with those in accounting and banking. it's a mirage. don't be too myopic - go read the other thread where an engineer advised against such a career.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

the key words are "starting pay". the pay and career progression will stay stagnant and fail to catch up with those in accounting and banking. it's a mirage. don't be too myopic - go read the other thread where an engineer advised against such a career.

Yup. 5 years down the road, when he's struggling to get to $6k (if your cousin is lucky and very good) its jarring to see his less impressive peers (who maybe went to business admin cos they couldn't handle the rigour of engineering in university) hit $10k in banking ...

That's when it all hits home... believe me - every top scholar who chose engineer has a sob story like that...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"new and potentially cheaper replacement" - We are all sick of hearing this, but i have to say it: There's no free lunch in this world.

"Because most of the engineering roles in Singapore are those of a manufacturing variety" - Strangely they are paid more than engineers who does actual product design and development.

"Overseas engineers are potentially better." - 'Potentially' is the right word. I've seen more crappy than good ones. Their more suitable as scientists than engineers.

"Yes, there is some frictional cost as the new hire gets up to speed, but the impact to the business is really negligible." - Engineering knowledge comes with experience. It cannot be passed on easily. Many specializations take as long as 3-4 yrs to train a new hire up to speed. The boat would already be long gone by then.

"Most engineering jobs skills are not transferrable, so they know its hard for you to get up and leave for a better paying job." - Engineers are jumping all over and across industries despite their specializations.

All in all, sg is just not the place for hardcore engineers. Either rise to management or work like a dog with low pay.

I don't disagree with your points on time it takes to train an engineer fully. But reality is, a fresh grad can be trained to perform the core functions very quickly, and there will be seniors to guide him in areas which require experience and judgement.

Is this optimal? No. But does this materially affect the business? I'd say no as well - just means the seniors have to work harder (for the same pay) for a time.

Nett effect? There is little incentive for companies to fight to retain rank and file engineers when there is limited downside to replacing them with fresh grads.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yup. 5 years down the road, when he's struggling to get to $6k (if your cousin is lucky and very good) its jarring to see his less impressive peers (who maybe went to business admin cos they couldn't handle the rigour of engineering in university) hit $10k in banking ...

That's when it all hits home... believe me - every top scholar who chose engineer has a sob story like that...

there's this ex-m'sian auntie MP, the ping pong one, who said some of the top companies in singapore are run by engineers earning millions. engineers can make millions. don't pray pray.

temasek ceo was an engineer..... our dear pm studied comp science one. some goes for creative ceo. dun play play.

Now, I am working at manufacturing company with diaploma. If I want to change to banking/finance, what should I do? What kind of degree should I get?

May I will be study part time degree only.

Any Advise for me?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Now, I am working at manufacturing company with diaploma. If I want to change to banking/finance, what should I do? What kind of degree should I get?

May I will be study part time degree only.

Any Advise for me?

Look, if you are already in engineering, I think the take away from this thread shouldn't be "engineering doesn't pay, now how do I get to finance? "

It's remarkably difficult to get into a well paying front office role, even if u have first class honours at nus or ntu. As a mid career engineer , the odds are fairly stacked against you.

The more appropriate and higher success probability question is "which area of engineering should I focus on to carve out a lucrative career ?" To do that, refer to my note above on "engineering is not a dead end"...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

temasek ceo was an engineer..... our dear pm studied comp science one. some goes for creative ceo. dun play play.

2 observations -
- studying engineering is diff from working as an engineer - think we are all talking about working as an engineer here, and opportunities arising from the same
- in deciding on a career, its never meaningful to speak of top salaries ... its always more meaningful to speak in terms of mean or median salaries. Would u encourage my son to choose professional soccer as a career because the top guy gets $10 million per year? And on this point its clear that the median salary in finance is higher than that in engineering

Originally Posted by Unregistered

2 observations -
- studying engineering is diff from working as an engineer - think we are all talking about working as an engineer here, and opportunities arising from the same
- in deciding on a career, its never meaningful to speak of top salaries ... its always more meaningful to speak in terms of mean or median salaries. Would u encourage my son to choose professional soccer as a career because the top guy gets $10 million per year? And on this point its clear that the median salary in finance is higher than that in engineering

Just as it's never meaningful to speak of top salaries, it's also never meaningful to speak of median salaries without looking at the difficulty of getting into a particular career.

An engineering graduate finding an engineering job is almost a certainty whereas a finance graduate finding a finance job (particularly one in front office) is not.

The battlefield is littered with bodies of finance graduates languishing in front desk (not front office) receptionist/ telemarketer-type dead end jobs.

Unlike the myriad engineers here who can like claim "if I had studied finance ...", these unfortunate finance grads can't do the same.

Hence one advantage of studying engineering is that one can always claim "if I had studied finance ..." and add whatever number of zeros to your salary.