career as RSAF air force engineer ME4

The ME scheme is best of both world. You get the top dollars like pte sector yet also get the job secruity and slackness from civil service.

Prob is many ppl know that so it become very hard to get in.

Why u guys dun consider go for army engineer since AFE is so competitive. It's still an engineer job but its in army.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The ME scheme is best of both world. You get the top dollars like pte sector yet also get the job secruity and slackness from civil service.

Prob is many ppl know that so it become very hard to get in.

You my friend, need to do a reality check.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Spot on my friend.

Unlike pte sector where you can leave anytime, you can't leave while you are in service. You can, theoretically, but you wouldn't. You can't find jobs outside, or even if you could you can't take the pay cut. And even if you managed to find job, it's more difficult to excel considering you are thirties and have a family.
There's this saying that in civil service, you have to step on your friends to climb on top. And worst still, that friend/stepping board is going to be with you forever. Sometimes, he won't even know that you have stepped on him, and he's genuinely nice to you. Can you live with that guilt?
Even if you have stepped on a stepping board, you can't step past a 'glass celling'. Unlike ministries where academics plays a role but it's not everything, in SAF it's EVERYTHING. Understand where you stand, and know where you will end. If you have decided and is fine with it, sign on.

Signing on is good for those who needs money immediately, but make sure you have a clear goal. It's easy to be clouded by your workplace attitude, typical in SAF. 'Spend every cent you have' or '10th of month is coming' mentality. Every guy who've served ns will understand this. Once you enter, you will be surprise to see your superiors who seemed to be doing very well is not doing well at all. A LTC who drives a jaguar and stays in condo, once can't afford a trip with us to bali for trip, which we later realise it's because he have no money to do so. All the loans and expenditure account for every single cent of his, and even he's a LTC in forties, he have zero savings.

Tip for everyone from a former SAF regular.

Hardly any regular I know in SAF ever seriously think of leaving. Sure they cry father cry mother make noise complain all the time, but those who seriously go for interviews, scout the industry, build up professional network are very few.

At the end of the day they know that for all the occassional crap they have to take, there are not many places in pte sector that can pay them so high and demand so little output from them.

As for SAF regulars spending too much, this is usually a bad side effect from too much job guarantee. If they spend wisely & cut down all that spending on car, booze and whores, save and learn to invest that bloated pay package during their do-nothing office hours, many will turn out way better than a senior manager in the pte sector by the time they retire at 50.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hardly any regular I know in SAF ever seriously think of leaving. Sure they cry father cry mother make noise complain all the time, but those who seriously go for interviews, scout the industry, build up professional network are very few.

At the end of the day they know that for all the occassional crap they have to take, there are not many places in pte sector that can pay them so high and demand so little output from them.

As for SAF regulars spending too much, this is usually a bad side effect from too much job guarantee. If they spend wisely & cut down all that spending on car, booze and whores, save and learn to invest that bloated pay package during their do-nothing office hours, many will turn out way better than a senior manager in the pte sector by the time they retire at 50.

Yea, spot on.

When I was leaving, i had to take a pay less than a fresh grad. I was lucky back then that i didn't have a family, or else leaving will be hard. Even though i left, i felt so lost in corporate world. Zero connections, a few friends from university is all i have if you think of them as connections.
Somemore the mindset is different. I finally learnt that leaving work at 5 is an ultimate luxury instead of given privilege. It takes me time to catch up on peers who have been in industry since graduation, but i am always 5 years behind them. Or maybe, the gap is widening, since i'm older now and can't fight with those eager-eyed fresh grads.

"not many places in pte sector that can pay them so high and demand so little output from them. ". Truth is, there is not a single sector that can pay high and demand SAF standard of work.

Moral of the story, think of SAF as a lifelong career before stepping in.

If you're thinking of getting some money in five years and then leaving to find a job, thinking that 'it's just a 50% pay cut, i will save money, it's alright', you are so damn wrong. You lost on the five years of experience, five years of connections. You are always five years behind your peers, and you will get mad seeing people five years younger than you climbing on top of you even though you started at the same position. And that SAF mindset is bound to set you back another one year of progression at least, no matter how fast you learn.
And furthermore, AFE may not be certified to fix civillian planes, if you are thinking of using afe as a shortcut to achieve your childhood dreams of being an aircraft engineer, don't.

Now on finance, I'm glad most people here have been working outside for a while and may not be victim to this.
However, most of the regular enter the force at 19 - 21. We are ignorant. When we go university, we do not worry about money at all. Our mindset is, "payday is in ____ days". We calculate loans to military precision, utilizing every single cent to get a better car. We go to pubs every day, knowing that the next day in camp will be slack like hell and we can probably sleep in some vacant room in camp. Temptation is too strong. You will become the SAF lifestyle that now you are telling yourself you wouldn't.
There's a saying "you are the average of five people you hang out with"
Honestly, I've only seen one really cash rich regular in my service and everyone else is heavily in debt. It's hard to get rich even though you receive a lot.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yea, spot on.

When I was leaving, i had to take a pay less than a fresh grad. I was lucky back then that i didn't have a family, or else leaving will be hard. Even though i left, i felt so lost in corporate world. Zero connections, a few friends from university is all i have if you think of them as connections.
Somemore the mindset is different. I finally learnt that leaving work at 5 is an ultimate luxury instead of given privilege. It takes me time to catch up on peers who have been in industry since graduation, but i am always 5 years behind them. Or maybe, the gap is widening, since i'm older now and can't fight with those eager-eyed fresh grads.

"not many places in pte sector that can pay them so high and demand so little output from them. ". Truth is, there is not a single sector that can pay high and demand SAF standard of work.

Moral of the story, think of SAF as a lifelong career before stepping in.

If you're thinking of getting some money in five years and then leaving to find a job, thinking that 'it's just a 50% pay cut, i will save money, it's alright', you are so damn wrong. You lost on the five years of experience, five years of connections. You are always five years behind your peers, and you will get mad seeing people five years younger than you climbing on top of you even though you started at the same position. And that SAF mindset is bound to set you back another one year of progression at least, no matter how fast you learn.
And furthermore, AFE may not be certified to fix civillian planes, if you are thinking of using afe as a shortcut to achieve your childhood dreams of being an aircraft engineer, don't.

Now on finance, I'm glad most people here have been working outside for a while and may not be victim to this.
However, most of the regular enter the force at 19 - 21. We are ignorant. When we go university, we do not worry about money at all. Our mindset is, "payday is in ____ days". We calculate loans to military precision, utilizing every single cent to get a better car. We go to pubs every day, knowing that the next day in camp will be slack like hell and we can probably sleep in some vacant room in camp. Temptation is too strong. You will become the SAF lifestyle that now you are telling yourself you wouldn't.
There's a saying "you are the average of five people you hang out with"
Honestly, I've only seen one really cash rich regular in my service and everyone else is heavily in debt. It's hard to get rich even though you receive a lot.

Haha I see you are a former regular yourself as well

Back in my days there was no ME concept yet, I was S4 in guards. Made the decision to leave army after 6 years inside, roughly went through the same challenges as you when I first came out.

For me luckier because one of my close uni friend was a high flier in an industrial engineering MNC and was able to secure a Project Assistant Manager job for me, still the transition was tougher than any army training (mentally, not physically).

The pay was seriously very good considering the qualifications and the kind of work we were required to do. By right most of the regulars should be able to retire like a king before 50 since pay is high, expenses very low as army covers a lot of them like meals, medical, insurance, and so many extra perks for the family as well.

But I also notice many seem to be spending beyond their means. Officers were wasting big bucks on nonsense like condos, cars, golf and clubbing. My CO owned 2 cars, one a Toyota which he drive to work and another BM convertible for private use. How I know? Because when I follow him to golf trips to Malaysia he always drive the BM. Speaking of golf, he buys the best equipment he can find, splurge like nobody business in the club and KTV session after that. So did my fellow officer who accompany him.

The men are even worse. Many are into zhengning cars, dead drunk at wee mornings, buying all sorts of consumer staff using CC and literally run out of money by the 5 - 7 every month. I will always remember this incident when after exercise one group of us officer & men R&R at Bangkok. The kind of money they just burn in 3 days on drinking, gogo bars, massage and of course the WGs was really power.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Haha I see you are a former regular yourself as well

Back in my days there was no ME concept yet, I was S4 in guards. Made the decision to leave army after 6 years inside, roughly went through the same challenges as you when I first came out.

For me luckier because one of my close uni friend was a high flier in an industrial engineering MNC and was able to secure a Project Assistant Manager job for me, still the transition was tougher than any army training (mentally, not physically).

The pay was seriously very good considering the qualifications and the kind of work we were required to do. By right most of the regulars should be able to retire like a king before 50 since pay is high, expenses very low as army covers a lot of them like meals, medical, insurance, and so many extra perks for the family as well.

But I also notice many seem to be spending beyond their means. Officers were wasting big bucks on nonsense like condos, cars, golf and clubbing. My CO owned 2 cars, one a Toyota which he drive to work and another BM convertible for private use. How I know? Because when I follow him to golf trips to Malaysia he always drive the BM. Speaking of golf, he buys the best equipment he can find, splurge like nobody business in the club and KTV session after that. So did my fellow officer who accompany him.

The men are even worse. Many are into zhengning cars, dead drunk at wee mornings, buying all sorts of consumer staff using CC and literally run out of money by the 5 - 7 every month. I will always remember this incident when after exercise one group of us officer & men R&R at Bangkok. The kind of money they just burn in 3 days on drinking, gogo bars, massage and of course the WGs was really power.

since you are an OFFICER in army b4, i assume your last rank as a regular is CPT b4 you left, can you brief tell us how is the pay slip look like?

basic pay
appointment pay
other allowance

how much is CPT salary just b4 you left??

also how much is the annual increment of CPT?

or from CPT promote to MAJ , how much is the increment

Originally Posted by Unregistered

since you are an OFFICER in army b4, i assume your last rank as a regular is CPT b4 you left, can you brief tell us how is the pay slip look like?

basic pay
appointment pay
other allowance

how much is CPT salary just b4 you left??

also how much is the annual increment of CPT?

or from CPT promote to MAJ , how much is the increment

Yea was CPT. Can't remember exact breakdown since this was in early 2006, but IIRC all in I got 5k+ each month. The pay for CPT is prob much higher now...

As for MAJ no idea, I was never interested to find out since I already made up my mind to get out ASAP after 3 years with army.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yea, spot on.

When I was leaving, i had to take a pay less than a fresh grad. I was lucky back then that i didn't have a family, or else leaving will be hard. Even though i left, i felt so lost in corporate world. Zero connections, a few friends from university is all i have if you think of them as connections.
Somemore the mindset is different. I finally learnt that leaving work at 5 is an ultimate luxury instead of given privilege. It takes me time to catch up on peers who have been in industry since graduation, but i am always 5 years behind them. Or maybe, the gap is widening, since i'm older now and can't fight with those eager-eyed fresh grads.

"not many places in pte sector that can pay them so high and demand so little output from them. ". Truth is, there is not a single sector that can pay high and demand SAF standard of work.

Moral of the story, think of SAF as a lifelong career before stepping in.

If you're thinking of getting some money in five years and then leaving to find a job, thinking that 'it's just a 50% pay cut, i will save money, it's alright', you are so damn wrong. You lost on the five years of experience, five years of connections. You are always five years behind your peers, and you will get mad seeing people five years younger than you climbing on top of you even though you started at the same position. And that SAF mindset is bound to set you back another one year of progression at least, no matter how fast you learn.
And furthermore, AFE may not be certified to fix civillian planes, if you are thinking of using afe as a shortcut to achieve your childhood dreams of being an aircraft engineer, don't.

Now on finance, I'm glad most people here have been working outside for a while and may not be victim to this.
However, most of the regular enter the force at 19 - 21. We are ignorant. When we go university, we do not worry about money at all. Our mindset is, "payday is in ____ days". We calculate loans to military precision, utilizing every single cent to get a better car. We go to pubs every day, knowing that the next day in camp will be slack like hell and we can probably sleep in some vacant room in camp. Temptation is too strong. You will become the SAF lifestyle that now you are telling yourself you wouldn't.
There's a saying "you are the average of five people you hang out with"
Honestly, I've only seen one really cash rich regular in my service and everyone else is heavily in debt. It's hard to get rich even though you receive a lot.

from one ex-regular to another, what you've said is how i feel exactly.
i think while the pay cut is one component of the difficulties following leaving the force, the other is on the connections with the outside world in terms of qualifications, and being willing to start, in a sense, from zero in your career. unless, the skills/ experience gained in the service are suited for the new job you are having.

but i would like to differ from the point of saving $$ for some years before leaving, cos i do think that though a heavy pay cut is quite inevitable, a regular pay does help in easing your financial liabilities early in the career. more importantly to know what you want to do after leaving the service, else i agree with the bro above that its better to stay for the $, at least for the interim.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

since you are an OFFICER in army b4, i assume your last rank as a regular is CPT b4 you left, can you brief tell us how is the pay slip look like?

basic pay
appointment pay
other allowance

how much is CPT salary just b4 you left??

also how much is the annual increment of CPT?

or from CPT promote to MAJ , how much is the increment

I left three years ago. I think basic was 4.5k and appointment allowance is 800.
I remember bringing home close to 5k. I am a degree with honors, significantly lower pay than degree with 'good' honors. Annual increment about 5-10%.
Within captain also got different pay.

It's very hard to say how much increment. It based on which track you are in. There is a scholar track and those guys bring in $1000 additional. So those captains may earn more than a maj.
I estimate a normal major pay to be 6-8k.

but please don't use officer scheme to estimate MDES. MDES is entirely on a different system. They peg salary to paper rather than rank from my understanding.