is computer science a good choice for a degree?

[gurlInTech]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sg has higher standard for CS grad Becos there are limited GOOD positions , I mean those large tech /MNC positions not some small firm who need a tech staff. But now everyone eyeing this cake, more and more CS students each batch in recent years just driving up the competition

Also there are competitions from top graduates in China, other SEA countries, scholar studied in US/UK

I would still say CS is a good degree cos it can land u a job in the current trend for technology company success. But 10 years down the road when there are surplus of supplies of talented CS skilled workers, u need to start worrying for graduates replacing u at any moment

Thats 10 years later problem to think about lol. Many of my friends are already planning to retire in 5-10 years time. Idk why but quite a large number of my friends and colleagues particularly in CS are LEAN FIRE focused.

Originally Posted by gurlInTech

Thats 10 years later problem to think about lol. Many of my friends are already planning to retire in 5-10 years time. Idk why but quite a large number of my friends and colleagues particularly in CS are LEAN FIRE focused.

idk lah if u rly that gud can retire by 35-40, u are like top 1% of cs batch u no need worry

but for those that want kids/wifey dun work one, very dangerous at middle age if u may lose your job overnight with a family to support, even if u have savings

[gurlInTech]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

idk lah if u rly that gud can retire by 35-40, u are like top 1% of cs batch u no need worry

but for those that want kids/wifey dun work one, very dangerous at middle age if u may lose your job overnight with a family to support, even if u have savings

That's a financial misconception that only top 1% of CS batch then don't need to worry about retirement. LEAN FIRE = living frugally, usually never date nor marry, invest in index funds and achieve Financial Independence Retire Early. My guy friends are literally discussing about pooling money to buy a house together.

Plus, quite a number of sectors out there which are also prone to losing their jobs overnight at middle-age. Rather than thinking about the bleak future and be unhappy every day, its better to focus on improving one's skill to be specialised in something so you will be sought after anywhere.

On a side note, actually its good that LEAN FIRE is trending in CS (if it is), so that jobs will be opened up to fresh graduates, rather than people job-hogging the vacancy until laid off.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sg has higher standard for CS grad Becos there are limited GOOD positions , I mean those large tech /MNC positions not some small firm who need a tech staff. But now everyone eyeing this cake, more and more CS students each batch in recent years just driving up the competition

Also there are competitions from top graduates in China, other SEA countries, scholar studied in US/UK

I would still say CS is a good degree cos it can land u a job in the current trend for technology company success. But 10 years down the road when there are surplus of supplies of talented CS skilled workers, u need to start worrying for graduates replacing u at any moment

No..... this is just flat out wrong.

Good position means FAANG or jobs paying 6-7k fresh grad, not just any large tech companies. there's a lot of space in large tech companies that any sub-par CS graduate can get into. Accenture, IBM, Singtel, Circles.Life, Grab, Salesforce, Grab, etc.

Companies are always mass hiring. Every 2-3 years we get tech giants pouring billions into tech infrastructure here hoping to pull talents. Once they fail to pull talents, they'll settle for average graduates.

Competitions from top graduates in China? They don't come to Singapore to work. That's a fact. Obtaining a VISA is a barrier to entry, language barrier is another problem. Even our top NTU / NUS china students are having difficulties with their work permit.

10 years down the road, nothing much will change. CS Market will still be looking for talents or mid-senior devs. Graduates will have a rough time getting a entry-level position given that more people will join CS thinking it's easy money = more entry level devs = more competition.

Also if anyone works in tech and gets easily replaced by a talented fresh grad, all I can say is

1. You must be absolutely garbage at your job that the company is willing to train another employee, from the beginning, put him / her through training, pay this person higher starting salary ( which means more $$$ down the road since increments are % based ) over you, someone who has x amount of YOE in the company. Talent means something sure but talent doesn't suddenly make someone familiar with the company's 10-40+ years codebase and build rapport with everyone in just 1-2 months.

2. You are working in some trash PIP culture company with high turnover rate. In which case it wouldn't matter if you get replaced or not, you'll get fired before your stocks even vest. I'd worry about getting scammed than getting replaced here.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No..... this is just flat out wrong.

Good position means FAANG or jobs paying 6-7k fresh grad, not just any large tech companies. there's a lot of space in large tech companies that any sub-par CS graduate can get into. Accenture, IBM, Singtel, Circles.Life, Grab, Salesforce, Grab, etc.

Companies are always mass hiring. Every 2-3 years we get tech giants pouring billions into tech infrastructure here hoping to pull talents. Once they fail to pull talents, they'll settle for average graduates.

Competitions from top graduates in China? They don't come to Singapore to work. That's a fact. Obtaining a VISA is a barrier to entry, language barrier is another problem. Even our top NTU / NUS china students are having difficulties with their work permit.

10 years down the road, nothing much will change. CS Market will still be looking for talents or mid-senior devs. Graduates will have a rough time getting a entry-level position given that more people will join CS thinking it's easy money = more entry level devs = more competition.

Also if anyone works in tech and gets easily replaced by a talented fresh grad, all I can say is

1. You must be absolutely garbage at your job that the company is willing to train another employee, from the beginning, put him / her through training, pay this person higher starting salary ( which means more $$$ down the road since increments are % based ) over you, someone who has x amount of YOE in the company. Talent means something sure but talent doesn't suddenly make someone familiar with the company's 10-40+ years codebase and build rapport with everyone in just 1-2 months.

2. You are working in some trash PIP culture company with high turnover rate. In which case it wouldn't matter if you get replaced or not, you'll get fired before your stocks even vest. I'd worry about getting scammed than getting replaced here.

Not trying to argue with you. But it’s very one sided view to say someone’s opinion is “flat out wrong”

Maybe can try to google for “the 35 year old crisis” . I’m not saying that what happened in China technology hiring field is gonna happen In sg . But it’s a good warning sign and it’s always good for ppl to expect what is gonna happen in fast moving field when your age goes up

And fyi as an ah Tiong in sg for many years, most of my friends who are PRC have no trouble in getting into big tech and getting a PR . Not just us but other SEA workers too , who are willing to take on lower paying CS jobs which some of u guys dun like

Again. Not trying to say CS is a bad degree, but since the thread is askingthe risks , why keep shooting down some ideas on the negative side of this industry

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No..... this is just flat out wrong.

Good position means FAANG or jobs paying 6-7k fresh grad, not just any large tech companies. there's a lot of space in large tech companies that any sub-par CS graduate can get into. Accenture, IBM, Singtel, Circles.Life, Grab, Salesforce, Grab, etc.

Companies are always mass hiring. Every 2-3 years we get tech giants pouring billions into tech infrastructure here hoping to pull talents. Once they fail to pull talents, they'll settle for average graduates.

Competitions from top graduates in China? They don't come to Singapore to work. That's a fact. Obtaining a VISA is a barrier to entry, language barrier is another problem. Even our top NTU / NUS china students are having difficulties with their work permit.

10 years down the road, nothing much will change. CS Market will still be looking for talents or mid-senior devs. Graduates will have a rough time getting a entry-level position given that more people will join CS thinking it's easy money = more entry level devs = more competition.

Also if anyone works in tech and gets easily replaced by a talented fresh grad, all I can say is

1. You must be absolutely garbage at your job that the company is willing to train another employee, from the beginning, put him / her through training, pay this person higher starting salary ( which means more $$$ down the road since increments are % based ) over you, someone who has x amount of YOE in the company. Talent means something sure but talent doesn't suddenly make someone familiar with the company's 10-40+ years codebase and build rapport with everyone in just 1-2 months.

2. You are working in some trash PIP culture company with high turnover rate. In which case it wouldn't matter if you get replaced or not, you'll get fired before your stocks even vest. I'd worry about getting scammed than getting replaced here.

the other post of mine gets eaten up and another here. Appreciate for typing such a long reply to discuss. But feel a bit one sided to say someone's idea is "flat wrong"

Just a curious question, how many years have u been in to this industry? i wouldnt say is the complete same situation, but in matured human resource market overseas, the "35 year old crisis" for say, SWE, is a legitimate issue. Even my closest friends joke and worry abt it sometime, and they are rly smart and brilliant guys. i pointed out the negative sides of this industry from the POV of an average performer, since the qn of this thread is comming from a general view of the degree. Its not really fair to always been looking at the top performers to say how u can thrive with this degree. when we study business degree, we dont go around and tell everyone is a million dollar job cos of goldman sachs, u look at the middle point where u can be a retail banker or a small corporate finance guy right?

and btw, im ah tiong living in sg for many years. none of the NTU/NUS grad, who are china students, have any big issues getting a PR or a good job just because of their LTP status after they graduate. If they do, like u said, they dont deserve to stay in SG anyways. but i do heard very often from my friends in tech that they are mass hiring but also keep the positions posted on our chinese web too (bear in mind this is the average position i think should be place in mind, not just the top tier) In fact if the company is like u said, not sh*t, they would willingly sponsor the visa. And thats my side of the truth of this industry. Still saying its a good degree, but some mental preparation of constantly upgrading yourself to not get kicked out is sth rly impt. Is required for all industry yes, but for tech, is crucial

Originally Posted by Unregistered

the other post of mine gets eaten up and another here. Appreciate for typing such a long reply to discuss. But feel a bit one sided to say someone's idea is "flat wrong"

??? one sided because I called out your info to be flat out wrong? Huh? it's nothing personal lol just calling it how I see it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Just a curious question, how many years have u been in to this industry?

How is this relevant to my argument stance whatsoever?

More YOE = more valid? Why?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

i wouldnt say is the complete same situation, but in matured human resource market overseas, the "35 year old crisis" for say, SWE, is a legitimate issue. Even my closest friends joke and worry abt it sometime, and they are rly smart and brilliant guys.

Anecdotal evidence is not hard fact.

I could say my friends say the opposite of what you're saying, how is this a valid counter-argument point?

Anyway,

My info is based off cause and effect logic. If one goes for a top tier position with high pay like FAANG or large Chinese tech with PIP culture, one needs to constantly upgrade him/herself in fear of being replaced... because these jobs have top talents applying to them, who are willing to take lower pay. ( because the lower pay is still way above average CS pay )

Every other large tech MNC don't care. You want to stay a SWE I for 5 years they don't care, up to you, they're not going to replace you with some fresh talent who will need training / onboarding and cost the company more $$$ than it cost to retain you.

Feel free to debate but stick to point and counter-argue. I don't think using weird analogies like "Business Goldman sach something something" is valid here.

I also agree with GurlInTech

LEAN FIRE is trending in CS, definitely. I will retire by 45, if not sooner. Crypto and easy accessibility to stocks has made life a lot easier. I make 15kish returns from my stock investments every year, that $15k is worth more than me chasing some stupid internal promotion for a crappy 3% bump.

Plenty of my friends into Crypto etc have seen similar gains as well. Tho I suggest sticking to safe-bet tech / fintech stocks. ( Not tesla or meta lol )

Perks of being into tech is WFH, making it easier to farm / build passive income.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

??? one sided because I called out your info to be flat out wrong? Huh? it's nothing personal lol just calling it how I see it.

How is this relevant to my argument stance whatsoever?

More YOE = more valid? Why?

Anecdotal evidence is not hard fact.

I could say my friends say the opposite of what you're saying, how is this a valid counter-argument point?

Anyway,

My info is based off cause and effect logic. If one goes for a top tier position with high pay like FAANG or large Chinese tech with PIP culture, one needs to constantly upgrade him/herself in fear of being replaced... because these jobs have top talents applying to them, who are willing to take lower pay. ( because the lower pay is still way above average CS pay )

Every other large tech MNC don't care. You want to stay a SWE I for 5 years they don't care, up to you, they're not going to replace you with some fresh talent who will need training / onboarding and cost the company more $$$ than it cost to retain you.

Feel free to debate but stick to point and counter-argue. I don't think using weird analogies like "Business Goldman sach something something" is valid here.

I also agree with GurlInTech

LEAN FIRE is trending in CS, definitely. I will retire by 45, if not sooner. Crypto and easy accessibility to stocks has made life a lot easier. I make 15kish returns from my stock investments every year, that $15k is worth more than me chasing some stupid internal promotion for a crappy 3% bump.

Plenty of my friends into Crypto etc have seen similar gains as well. Tho I suggest sticking to safe-bet tech / fintech stocks. ( Not tesla or meta lol )

Perks of being into tech is WFH, making it easier to farm / build passive income.

Last sentence I confirm, haha

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Last sentence I confirm, haha

Bro which farm? Need better yield! Pls jio okay

i also want to add to long post above

big mnc companies don wan replace stagnated people because they are cheap , they wont ask for raise , wont complain about their low pay

u hire some talent, the talent sure complain about pay, sure ask u counter-offer or renegotiate raise every year if not the talent threatens to leave

talents dont need worry about losing job one

average people also dont need worry one

trust me , u wait 30 years also dont need worry, big mnc will always need people to do saikang tech job like maintain devops all those . u think talents want to do those ? maintain code base ? fix bug inside 4000 line of code files ?

lj la dont fear monger leh . u wan get cs degree just go for it bro , private or not just try .