From Engineering to Banking

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Stay manufacturing sector as engineer. This is advocated by Tony Tan

RAZORTV - Dr Tony Tan: Singapore needs more engineers

Though it doesnt pay well, you will play a part in diversifying Singapore economy, maybe treat it as part of nation building

We men have done enough of nation building, unless you're a foreign talent.

To be honest, with just an engineering degree, you stand a very slim chance. I, personally, have an MBA (Finance) from a local uni and still have difficulty getting into banking. Reason is because top foreign banks look for MBA from Ivy League. Only a few exceptional ones get into IB from my cohort and they are mostly FT who has diverse overseas and work experiences.

For CFA, even with CFA lvl 1 doesn't make the cut. You need to complete all 3 lvls (1,2,3) to even be considered 'keen' to be in banking if you are from engineering.

Hence, now the important part. So, how do you go about getting in?

1. Pray hard that one of your 100-1000 applications get noticed.
2. Network with bankers/headhunters.
3. Get enough experience and try your best to join an Ivy League business school.
4. Start from the bottom of the food chain - go and become a tele-sales or salesman for banks. As long as your resume doesn't have a 'bank' stated inside, you are not part of the family.
5. Possess a skill which banks need - IT, sourcing or project management and try to enter banking from the operation/tech side.

To be honest, engineers are indeed good in math. I'm one myself. But when it comes to banking, it's not just maths. It's cost modeling, analysis, number crunching and long work hours. It is very streneous. To earn that paycheck, you need to say this a 100x 'Work is life'. Why I say this? I have tasted how IB life is..... and it's bitter.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

To be honest, with just an engineering degree, you stand a very slim chance. I, personally, have an MBA (Finance) from a local uni and still have difficulty getting into banking. Reason is because top foreign banks look for MBA from Ivy League. Only a few exceptional ones get into IB from my cohort and they are mostly FT who has diverse overseas and work experiences.

For CFA, even with CFA lvl 1 doesn't make the cut. You need to complete all 3 lvls (1,2,3) to even be considered 'keen' to be in banking if you are from engineering.

Hence, now the important part. So, how do you go about getting in?

1. Pray hard that one of your 100-1000 applications get noticed.
2. Network with bankers/headhunters.
3. Get enough experience and try your best to join an Ivy League business school.
4. Start from the bottom of the food chain - go and become a tele-sales or salesman for banks. As long as your resume doesn't have a 'bank' stated inside, you are not part of the family.
5. Possess a skill which banks need - IT, sourcing or project management and try to enter banking from the operation/tech side.

To be honest, engineers are indeed good in math. I'm one myself. But when it comes to banking, it's not just maths. It's cost modeling, analysis, number crunching and long work hours. It is very streneous. To earn that paycheck, you need to say this a 100x 'Work is life'. Why I say this? I have tasted how IB life is..... and it's bitter.

Yup this guy hit the nail on the head.

Tough as heck to get in and once you are in, you wonder what the heck you are doing with your life.

[Liverpool]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

To be honest, with just an engineering degree, you stand a very slim chance. I, personally, have an MBA (Finance) from a local uni and still have difficulty getting into banking. Reason is because top foreign banks look for MBA from Ivy League. Only a few exceptional ones get into IB from my cohort and they are mostly FT who has diverse overseas and work experiences.

For CFA, even with CFA lvl 1 doesn't make the cut. You need to complete all 3 lvls (1,2,3) to even be considered 'keen' to be in banking if you are from engineering.

Hence, now the important part. So, how do you go about getting in?

1. Pray hard that one of your 100-1000 applications get noticed.
2. Network with bankers/headhunters.
3. Get enough experience and try your best to join an Ivy League business school.
4. Start from the bottom of the food chain - go and become a tele-sales or salesman for banks. As long as your resume doesn't have a 'bank' stated inside, you are not part of the family.
5. Possess a skill which banks need - IT, sourcing or project management and try to enter banking from the operation/tech side.

To be honest, engineers are indeed good in math. I'm one myself. But when it comes to banking, it's not just maths. It's cost modeling, analysis, number crunching and long work hours. It is very streneous. To earn that paycheck, you need to say this a 100x 'Work is life'. Why I say this? I have tasted how IB life is..... and it's bitter.

just curious, what are you doing now?

How much did you make after all this effort?

Wouldn't it be easier to just build up a business from scratch?

I don't understand why people are so hard up about getting into banking. It's just another job. Unless you are in IBD or trading, the money is max 200k pa only. Is it worth it? Even a poly lecturer makes close to that.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

To be honest, with just an engineering degree, you stand a very slim chance. I, personally, have an MBA (Finance) from a local uni and still have difficulty getting into banking. Reason is because top foreign banks look for MBA from Ivy League. Only a few exceptional ones get into IB from my cohort and they are mostly FT who has diverse overseas and work experiences.

For CFA, even with CFA lvl 1 doesn't make the cut. You need to complete all 3 lvls (1,2,3) to even be considered 'keen' to be in banking if you are from engineering.

Hence, now the important part. So, how do you go about getting in?

1. Pray hard that one of your 100-1000 applications get noticed.
2. Network with bankers/headhunters.
3. Get enough experience and try your best to join an Ivy League business school.
4. Start from the bottom of the food chain - go and become a tele-sales or salesman for banks. As long as your resume doesn't have a 'bank' stated inside, you are not part of the family.
5. Possess a skill which banks need - IT, sourcing or project management and try to enter banking from the operation/tech side.

To be honest, engineers are indeed good in math. I'm one myself. But when it comes to banking, it's not just maths. It's cost modeling, analysis, number crunching and long work hours. It is very streneous. To earn that paycheck, you need to say this a 100x 'Work is life'. Why I say this? I have tasted how IB life is..... and it's bitter.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

How much did you make after all this effort?

Wouldn't it be easier to just build up a business from scratch?

I don't understand why people are so hard up about getting into banking. It's just another job. Unless you are in IBD or trading, the money is max 200k pa only. Is it worth it? Even a poly lecturer makes close to that.

Starting a business appears to be the next cool thing to say, as a counterpoint to folks looking to get into finance. But when you ask, am not sure if you have fully thought thru the question yourself, instead if simply asking as a throwaway line.

It's definitely easier to talk about going into business than actually doing so, and most people that actually talk about it never take the first step towards it. First of all, its a huge financial risk. Most people who talk about going into business think of restaurant or retail shop ie stuff they are familiar with. That's the worst kind of business - super competitive and very high capital requirements of $200k to 500k, which you can lose in less than 6 months if the business fails. I've seen a few friends fail and lose 20 years of savings in 6 months and take 10 years to recover. Either that it you lose money from trusted family and friends.

Either that or you can choose a low capital business such as trading or real estate , but earnings are super volatile and most will struggle along for years potentially never getting rich.

Of course, I have a friend who went into his fathers business, is now CEO and has a collection of sports cars now. I also know of a few business men from the older generation that got rich of government concessions in Indonesia, but money is almost never clean.

So the notion of starting a business is romantic, buffeted by examples we all have of less educated friends who have made it very big in business, after starting from scratch. But if you turn a critical and objective eye to it, I have to concede that its not all roses. most (but obviously not all) successful business men either have a head start either via a family business, family money, family contacts or by being very agile in a fast changing market by doing stuff that's not clearly legal (Indonesia example above or new money from China or Russia).

Striving to get into finance is not easy, but its a risk free way of potentially becoming rich (albeit on a much smaller scale than a successful business man). No one ever said that getting rich is easy anyways ...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Starting a business appears to be the next cool thing to say, as a counterpoint to folks looking to get into finance. But when you ask, am not sure if you have fully thought thru the question yourself, instead if simply asking as a throwaway line.

It's definitely easier to talk about going into business than actually doing so, and most people that actually talk about it never take the first step towards it. First of all, its a huge financial risk. Most people who talk about going into business think of restaurant or retail shop ie stuff they are familiar with. That's the worst kind of business - super competitive and very high capital requirements of $200k to 500k, which you can lose in less than 6 months if the business fails. I've seen a few friends fail and lose 20 years of savings in 6 months and take 10 years to recover. Either that it you lose money from trusted family and friends.

Either that or you can choose a low capital business such as trading or real estate , but earnings are super volatile and most will struggle along for years potentially never getting rich.

Of course, I have a friend who went into his fathers business, is now CEO and has a collection of sports cars now. I also know of a few business men from the older generation that got rich of government concessions in Indonesia, but money is almost never clean.

So the notion of starting a business is romantic, buffeted by examples we all have of less educated friends who have made it very big in business, after starting from scratch. But if you turn a critical and objective eye to it, I have to concede that its not all roses. most (but obviously not all) successful business men either have a head start either via a family business, family money, family contacts or by being very agile in a fast changing market by doing stuff that's not clearly legal (Indonesia example above or new money from China or Russia).

Striving to get into finance is not easy, but its a risk free way of potentially becoming rich (albeit on a much smaller scale than a successful business man). No one ever said that getting rich is easy anyways ...

I agree with you that starting a shop or getting into f&b without knowing about the business is a good way to lose your capital. There are better ways.

If one can get into finance, then one's also smart enough to start a business the smart way:

- Start small during free time, while holding day job.

- Aim for scalability, i.e. hire or outsource, instead selling your own hours.

- Maybe do some freelance work in addition to building a scalable business. Who knows if consulting is your cup of tea.

- Test multiple business ideas, and when a couple of streams become promising, quit your day job.

Not everyone is suitable to be an entrepreneur. Some will never have more than a handful streams of income in their whole life (salary + interest + dividends + maybe rental), while others have multiple streams (business A + business B + consulting + interest + dividends + commissions + referral fees + etc).

But what I'm saying is that if you are so driven to enter finance, and if you think you are smarter than most people, then it's also highly likely that you can do well in business. It's just a different game, and maybe easier than you think.

I'm an entrepreneur by the way.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Stay manufacturing sector as engineer. This is advocated by Tony Tan

RAZORTV - Dr Tony Tan: Singapore needs more engineers

Though it doesnt pay well, you will play a part in diversifying Singapore economy, maybe treat it as part of nation building

Once again.. an appeal to all the young men out there to sacrifice your lives for the advancement of our economy... Yes, stay in manufacturing... Yes.. Stay in those routine, little prospect, dead end jobs of yours .... So that at the expense of your lives.. S'pore can maintain their GDP and the ministers can increase salary..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

For retail banking and sme corporate banking, maybe.

But for large corporates, hand to heart, I've not seen any in my dealings.

In places like standchart, poly diploma holders freshies are offered only clerical level jobs mostly. Only graduates are offered executive, senior officer jobs loh....

Can try for retail banking, sme corporate banking front office roles if not go for the unglam operation roles lo SOOOOO many of those jobs around. No need MBA or honors also can get in. Cards operations, trade operations, remittance, account services, customer services, treasury operations, credit administration.