ST Electronics

Originally Posted by Unregistered

15k alot meh?
That's just 3 fresh grad comp science 5k in combined into 1 single person.

Pls M3 KPI if can single handedly bring in and secure project that worth millions.
That creates job and opportunity for more than just 3 fresh grads.

So as M3 yes 15k is too little since fresh grad now starting pay so high.

your IQ is so low that there's no reason for me to explain to u further

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sounds like even ppl who work inside dont event knoe the system well

Yes it's very political and confusing.
Here is my account of the change in title.

Previously M4 Senior manager now is director (promotion or no? Same?)
Previously M3 senior principal engineer now also called director? Promotion or no?
Previously M3 senior principal engineer now called VP. Promotion? Two level?
Previously M3 senior principal engineer now called AVP? No promotion? Same?
Previously M2 principal engineer change to senior manager for 2 months. Now called AVP. So which is which? M3? M4?

The title can change anytime. Anyhow.
My boss told me his title keep changing but his pay grade and pay remained the same.
My other boss say some got change title. Some is change title and also pay grade and pay cause now they holding dual post. Etc.

Some is called job rotation. Last time is head of this division. Now head of another different division.
Its gray area at the top. All politics one. Who like who. Get promoted. Who don't like who. Get surpressed.

The bottom engineers will and always remain
E5
E6
M1
M2

Very rare seen any new age engineers go above this rank. Unless you been here 20 years plus during the start the. Your rank probably jumped to M3 or jump two ranks.

Make us wonder. And yet all of us below. Just observe see those newly promoted etc.

Always not in office. Always going meeting. Dsta la. Meeting meeting. Business meeting.
Yet no new project come in.
And their position keep getting higher. Promoted for what.
Engineers are pretty much slaves here.

It's so political that the bosses themselves also don't tell ppl they promoted or etc. All hide... Want to get higher pay but do less. Really no respect for the leaders here.

It's no surprise la. Maybe for those new are shocked of the sudden reorg.
But news already know few months prior.

And internally people already know this like 1 or 2 years ago.
They have made informal preparation. Already appoint people for the new potion etc. Get them ready etc.
Just that officially their title haven't change.

So previously if you see your M2 now suddenly become AVP is that M2 was already doing AVP work for 1@or 2 years but never got the promotion. Now officially he only got the title change.

Call it a probation. The top here like to try people out for sizes one.
You go observe la you see which M2 in your division started to be in Cc list or starting to shadow or cover the head. You'll know he is up for promotion next...

But that promotion takes 2 to 3 years in the making... That's why only those 20 heads etc get promoted.
This new generation now expects come out fresh high pay. Work 1 year expect to be promoted to senior engineer. Then work 2 years expect to be M1 assistant principal engineer. Then work 3 years expect to be principal engineer M2.

But you all never know your M2 work the same title for the like past 5 years now only finally become AVP.
And you all not happy...

Kids nowadays.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It's no surprise la. Maybe for those new are shocked of the sudden reorg.
But news already know few months prior.

And internally people already know this like 1 or 2 years ago.
They have made informal preparation. Already appoint people for the new potion etc. Get them ready etc.
Just that officially their title haven't change.

So previously if you see your M2 now suddenly become AVP is that M2 was already doing AVP work for 1@or 2 years but never got the promotion. Now officially he only got the title change.

Call it a probation. The top here like to try people out for sizes one.
You go observe la you see which M2 in your division started to be in Cc list or starting to shadow or cover the head. You'll know he is up for promotion next...

But that promotion takes 2 to 3 years in the making... That's why only those 20 heads etc get promoted.
This new generation now expects come out fresh high pay. Work 1 year expect to be promoted to senior engineer. Then work 2 years expect to be M1 assistant principal engineer. Then work 3 years expect to be principal engineer M2.

But you all never know your M2 work the same title for the like past 5 years now only finally become AVP.
And you all not happy...

Kids nowadays.

Cool story, actually to be fair, even though current promotion aren't as straightforward as in the past, but as long as you have the skill, is able to show initiative and perform well, promotion wont be an issue even at E levels... its just that many just want to relax and be status quo... if you just want to relax... promotion is relatively out of reach..

Dont get cheated by their job title.
Employment grade and job title are not the same...
From what i know - employment grade is like:
M2 - principal engineer
M3 - snr principal engineer
But still, you can have fanciful titles such as AVP, head of department etc...

Sure... And those M2 who worked so hard for 5 years promoted to AVP feel they deserve to be in retirement mode.

Ywah sure. E5 PROJECT ENGINEER WORK SO HARD FOR 5 YEARS TO DELIVER TJR PROJECT DONT EBEN GET TO BE PROMOTED TO SENIOR ENGINEER.

While the title holder principal engineer who just meeting and meeting failed project with no real deliverables to quantify the kpi gets promoted over the toil and hardwork of the newly fresh engineers.

This is why this company lack the engineering talent.
When all roads lead to management nobody wants to do engineering work.

Yet the management meet their kpi from the engineering work.
Whoever invented such structure...

So the lesson is. Don't study so hard be engineer OK.
Just be manager and come play politics at work then play long enough get promoted.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Cool story, actually to be fair, even though current promotion aren't as straightforward as in the past, but as long as you have the skill, is able to show initiative and perform well, promotion wont be an issue even at E levels... its just that many just want to relax and be status quo... if you just want to relax... promotion is relatively out of reach..

Dont get cheated by their job title.
Employment grade and job title are not the same...
From what i know - employment grade is like:
M2 - principal engineer
M3 - snr principal engineer
But still, you can have fanciful titles such as AVP, head of department etc...

Haha I have a newly promoted M1 small fry colleague, his email title is operations manager. Lol.
And my division manager M4 director... His email also operations manager.

Hahahaha.
Those high paid grade want to deflate their own title
Those low grade want to inflate their own title for self worth.

Ahahahahahah

I also have E6 senior engineer who called themselves system architect.
While at the same time M4 senior principal engineer now AVP... Call himself system architect.

Title in this company come from being here long enough.
Not from actual skills. Then if you challenge their authority, you're next to go. Blacklisted.
So you must suck up to them. Do all the design work etc. Hand it over to the M4 system architect so he can take credit for all your work and watch him get promoted to AvP.

Don't come here everyday and complain la engineers.
All you hardworking engineers, please go and research or study or self improve.


Read engineering course.
Get certified. Etc.
Test your system.
Document your design. Etc.
Plan your mockup OK.

Leave the politics to us senior management okay.
Otherwise we have nothing to do in office other than chit chat and breakfast coffee

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't come here everyday and complain la engineers.
All you hardworking engineers, please go and research or study or self improve.


Read engineering course.
Get certified. Etc.
Test your system.
Document your design. Etc.
Plan your mockup OK.

Leave the politics to us senior management okay.
Otherwise we have nothing to do in office other than chit chat and breakfast coffee

OK boss. We become better engineer.
You all also go take course on how to be a better manager okay.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't come here everyday and complain la engineers.
All you hardworking engineers, please go and research or study or self improve.


Read engineering course.
Get certified. Etc.
Test your system.
Document your design. Etc.
Plan your mockup OK.

Leave the politics to us senior management okay.
Otherwise we have nothing to do in office other than chit chat and breakfast coffee

Does the management realise that all the politics are mostly started by them?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sure... And those M2 who worked so hard for 5 years promoted to AVP feel they deserve to be in retirement mode.

Ywah sure. E5 PROJECT ENGINEER WORK SO HARD FOR 5 YEARS TO DELIVER TJR PROJECT DONT EBEN GET TO BE PROMOTED TO SENIOR ENGINEER.

While the title holder principal engineer who just meeting and meeting failed project with no real deliverables to quantify the kpi gets promoted over the toil and hardwork of the newly fresh engineers.

This is why this company lack the engineering talent.
When all roads lead to management nobody wants to do engineering work.

Yet the management meet their kpi from the engineering work.
Whoever invented such structure...

So the lesson is. Don't study so hard be engineer OK.
Just be manager and come play politics at work then play long enough get promoted.

I agree with you on the part engineers are stuck 5 years and no promotion. Every year or few months there's announcement on the movement of management, either taking on more portfolios or promoted to higher appointments. Down at the engineers part, most changes are limited to those who are already in leadership position, like lead or manager appointments.

For the rest of the engineers, they are just dumped most of the stuff that M-graded engineers refused to do. They insisted that their things are more important and when the E-grade engineers are unable to complete their work, the management will just say KPI failed. Even admins can pull their weight on engineers. Unfortunate but true.