Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Do you see fresh graduate hire numbers going down?

Ryan

Hi Ryan,

This is a tough question. I don't see the numbers hired in Local banks going down, in fact they might even go up. As to foreign banks, many specific departments like IB do not hire many in the first place. In fact, if I'm not wrong, due to the small number of places, many banks seem to hire from their summer internship programme. I think such small numbers would never be a reflection of how the general grad is going to see the market.

I read in the papers recently that there is a cut in number of teachers hired. Perhaps that would affect the grad market a lot more since a (hypothetical) cut of 20% would mean a few hundred grads going without a job and this creates a glut.

I think a good area to be in now it is in wealth management. This is an area that a grad should consider going into. If you want to do M&A/consulting etc., move to London/New York/HK. A large part of going into such jobs is not the role itself, but the opportunities after leaving the company. If a person was working in consulting in London/New York, they would have access to jobs in Ftse100/F500 since most companies are based out of those cities. For those interested in other wall-street type jobs, you probably wouldn't get many of that sort of opportunities in Singapore.

My advice is to really think a few steps ahead and envisage what exactly is your goal.

Dan

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi Ryan,

This is a tough question. I don't see the numbers hired in Local banks going down, in fact they might even go up. As to foreign banks, many specific departments like IB do not hire many in the first place. In fact, if I'm not wrong, due to the small number of places, many banks seem to hire from their summer internship programme. I think such small numbers would never be a reflection of how the general grad is going to see the market.

I read in the papers recently that there is a cut in number of teachers hired. Perhaps that would affect the grad market a lot more since a (hypothetical) cut of 20% would mean a few hundred grads going without a job and this creates a glut.

I think a good area to be in now it is in wealth management. This is an area that a grad should consider going into. If you want to do M&A/consulting etc., move to London/New York/HK. A large part of going into such jobs is not the role itself, but the opportunities after leaving the company. If a person was working in consulting in London/New York, they would have access to jobs in Ftse100/F500 since most companies are based out of those cities. For those interested in other wall-street type jobs, you probably wouldn't get many of that sort of opportunities in Singapore.

My advice is to really think a few steps ahead and envisage what exactly is your goal.

Dan

Is it easy for a lawyer to move to London/HK/New York? I'm a bit jaded and am in fact looking at working abroad for a new experience.

Min

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is it easy for a lawyer to move to London/HK/New York? I'm a bit jaded and am in fact looking at working abroad for a new experience.

Min

It would depend on where you are at the moment. Perhaps you should looking at moving into an international firm locally first, then look for a transfer, that would be the easiest way forward.

Dan

Originally Posted by skydiver

I'm a 3rd year PQE in a Big 4 law firm. I'll be hitting Senior Associate within the next 3 months. I'd like to take this opportunity to clarify the salary structure within local firms. Here goes:

(1) Salary Culture Whilst local firms tend to set a low basic monthly salary, the annual remuneration is by no means unattractive. The annual remuneration mechanism is a very, very bonus-centric one, which involves a bonus component which pushes up the base wage by a minimum of 50%. A minimum 6 month bonus is given to flat-out average performers. Better performers typically get 7-8 months, while star performers (very rare) may get up to 9 or more. Anything less than a 6 month bonus is typically the firm’s signal telling an associate to leave.

In order to bring monthly take-home paychecks more in line with those offered by offshore firms, part of the 6 month bonus is set aside, divided by 12 and "front-loaded" into monthly paychecks. These are set out below in Paragraph (3).

The easiest way to calculate your annual pay is to take the following formula: (12 + no. of months bonus) * Basic Salary. Typical annual packages based on a ballpark average performance are set out below in Paragrapsh (3).

(2) Basic Salary schedule for the first 4.5 years:
Year 1 (NQ, 1st 5 months) - $4,000
Year 2 - $5,000
Year 3 - $6,000
Year 4 (SA1) - $7,200
Year 5 (SA2) - $8,500

(3) Take-home Salary schedule for the first 4.5 years (pre-CPF):
Year 1 (NQ, 1st 5 months) - $5,800
Year 2 - $6,800
Year 3 - $7,800
Year 4 (SA1) - $9,000
Year 5 (SA2) - $10,500

(4) Aggregate Annual Salary schedule (based on 6-8 months bonus, ie 18-20 months basic salary)
Year 1 - $30,000 over 5 mths.
Year 2 - $90,000 to $100,000
Year 3 - $108,000 to $120,000
Year 4 - $129,600 to $144,000
Year 5 - $153,000 to $170,000

It is thus clear that the yearly increment in annual pay is not $12,000. Since local firms pay typically 18-20 months of the basic wage within a year, the true average annual increment ranges from $18,000 (years 1-3) to $24,000 (year 4-5 increase), often outstripping the annual increment offered by offshore firms. As a result, the income gap between a Big 4 associate and ann offshore associate shrinks every year, and by the time a local Big 4 associate hits Year 5, his annual pay really isn't too far below what his peers in the offshore firms are taking. Furthermore, the move to offshore firms starts looking less and less attractive, given the better prospects of making partner within the next 3 years.

Final Note: These figures exclude the monthly S$650 employer CPF contribution as these are useless funds that go into your Medisave and Special Account. They can't be used to pay for housing (or anything for that matter), and in most cases, you will only smell these funds when you're way too close to your deathbed... Nevertheless if you wish to include this, you can add about $12,000 to each of the annual income figures stated above.

I think I'm underpaid

Lol at the spam by the same person for the last two pages.

Anyway, how difficult is it for a lawyer in a big 4 local firm to move to an international firm? Can any Tom dick and Harry do that?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lol at the spam by the same person for the last two pages.

Anyway, how difficult is it for a lawyer in a big 4 local firm to move to an international firm? Can any Tom dick and Harry do that?

I think it depends on no. of PQE at the big 4, your degree (2:1 appears to be the minimum) and practice area.

what the **** is with all the random zachs dan min louis etc holding a monologue here?? can we go back to the original purpose of this thread, which is to bitch about how underpaid we all are?

and no, SMU students, there is no grand conspiracy against hiring people from your school. its simply a numbers game. now go back to studying.

2nd lower NUS, 15 years PQE, associate director in a boutique firm. 150k/year including bonus. But work life balance is awesome.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

2nd lower NUS, 15 years PQE, associate director in a boutique firm. 150k/year including bonus. But work life balance is awesome.

here's a guy who knows what he wants

Heard the Part A Bar Exam this year was marked v strictly and many people failed, 50% of the cohort. How true is this?