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  #4521 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:04 AM
ivy lawyer
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Originally Posted by LegalBeagle View Post
So which area of law do you do? I’m really curious because magic circle firms typically do transactional work which requires manpower, and perhaps more importantly a big base of claimable partnership assets and huge professional indemnity insurance limits. Unless you’re a really seasoned veteran, the institutional clients who loved you when you were in an MC won’t feel quite the same towards you when you become the sole proprietor of ABC Partnership. I just don’t see how you can port the work over.

I used to be in an MC too, but i’ve since left for greener pastures.
civil and commercial litigation. i think these skills are transferable to a boutique firm. if i am doing ipo, then probably no. so i think if u intend to set up shop in future, u need to pick a good area of law. as for those mnc clients, they will stay with the mc firms and you need to look for new clients. you will probably get smaller clients who pay less, but this does not necessarily mean that you will earn less. being in an mc firm means that u can ride on their brand name and get bigger clients, but there is a trade off, and the mc firm takes a big cut of your profit. if u are on your own, u will get smaller clients, but u can eat the whole pie. because of this simple reason, you will be surprised to know how many owners of small firms making more than a partner at a big firm.

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  #4522 (permalink)  
Old 14-07-2019, 10:42 PM
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Can those who moved out to set up own law firm, care to share more?

Challenges
When did you move out
How did you get clients ?

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  #4523 (permalink)  
Old 17-07-2019, 09:29 AM
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Can those who moved out to set up own law firm, care to share more?

Challenges
When did you move out
How did you get clients ?
chirp chirp

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  #4524 (permalink)  
Old 17-07-2019, 07:35 PM
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Your ranking is incorrect. Compare apples to apples. On a pre-tax basis the base salary in Singapore for lawyers in MC/SC firms actually equals or even slightly exceeds that of their London counterparts. On a post-tax basis the Singaporeans are taking home far more due to much lower tax rates. For comparison, an MC London NQ would be earning 90-100k pounds (153-170k SGD), while an NQ in Singapore would be getting around 165k SGD. The London NQ would be taking home 60-66k pounds (100-115k SGD) while the SG NQ would be taking home around 135k SGD (after CPF deductions).

Don't know enough about HK and so can't comment. From what I've heard, NQs in US firms in Singapore are getting a base salary of around 20-21k per month. Make of that what you will.

Its a known fact that MC/SC firms in Singapore hire laterals primarily from the big4 (particularly for corporate roles), and that they regularly hire local grads (particularly if the hiring partner js Singaporean).
I can second and confirm this, including the figures - in fact the SG NQ with a SGD165k gross will take home closer to 150k cos SG tax rates are awesome. In the UK marginal effective rate at GBP100-125k is 60% cos of loss of personal allowance...

I'm at an international firm and decided to move to London HQ for a few years for career development but it's a terrible decision from a financial perspective cos of taxes. GBP is also getting fked every day - can't wait to move back to SG.

Some US firms in SG pay discriminate based on jurisdiction of qualification so data is more bumpy.
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  #4525 (permalink)  
Old 18-07-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ivy lawyer View Post
The training period in SG is only 6 months, and you say that the SG NQ will get 165k SGD?! That is 13k SGD/month for a NQ in SG. I do not think that this is accurate.

I heard that the MC firms in SG must partner with the local firms, and most of them do not pay the rates in London. It is far lesser.
You really don’t know a thing about the Singapore market, or the international legal market for that matter. You’re still mired in the lame “NY > London > HK > SG” kind of thinking. Those were the kind of misconceptions people had when they were still in Law School. I urge readers to take everything you say with a fistful of salt. There are so many flaws and stereotypes in your various posts that I don’t know where to begin correcting you. Ivy Lawyer indeed.

(1) “Must partner with local firms” - ever heard of QFLP? International firms with QFLP licenses are able to practice most areas of Singapore in its own right. Take CC Singapore for example. They practice all areas of SG law except litigation, which is handled by Cavenagh.

(2) “it is far lesser” - Singapore MC associates are paid on a global scale which is at or close to parity with their global peers in London and HK (ex US), with mild adjustments for tax rate differentials. Post-tax, SG and HK associates actually fare better than London associates, with little more than a $1,000 discrepancy between the SG and HK. CC NY is forced to pay Cravath rates because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be able to recruit any decent talent in the US market. Also, “lesser” is not grammatically correct. In Singapore, true “white shoe” outfits such as Milbank and LW pay full Cravath to their SG associates. Given local tax rates, SG White Shoe associates are far far better off than their NY counterparts. And of course nobody does better than the White Shoe associates working out of the UAE, who take zero tax and are often offered COLA on top of salary.

(3) “NQ” - where do I even begin... An “NQ” for the purposes of an SG Big4 is someone who has just passed the Singapore Bar. An “NQ” for the purposes of an SC/MC firm is someone who has just completed two years of rotational practice (ie: four half-year seats), or lateraled in from an SG Big4 as a Year 3 associate. An “NQ” for the purposes of a white shoe firm is someone who’s either just come in fresh off a JD or a mid-tier associate who’s lateraled in from a lower tier outfit (such as MC/SC) and taken a huge PQE haircut. I’ve seen even SG 6PQEs joining white shoe firms on the “NQ” scale.

Last edited by LegalBeagle; 18-07-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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  #4526 (permalink)  
Old 18-07-2019, 05:26 PM
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LW isn't a "white shoe" firm, they have west coast origins.

Actually the international legal press doesn't even use the term "white shoe" very much because it's not a well defined group, and don't share much in common other than historical origin. Cravath is often thought of as the most prestigious firm in US rankings but is not traditionally a "white shoe" firm. Milbank is usually like a middling 20-30 ranked. Kirkland is absolutely tearing up the market.

It's all about the "global elite" now.
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  #4527 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LegalBeagle View Post
You really don’t know a thing about the Singapore market, or the international legal market for that matter. You’re still mired in the lame “NY > London > HK > SG” kind of thinking. Those were the kind of misconceptions people had when they were still in Law School. I urge readers to take everything you say with a fistful of salt. There are so many flaws and stereotypes in your various posts that I don’t know where to begin correcting you. Ivy Lawyer indeed.

(1) “Must partner with local firms” - ever heard of QFLP? International firms with QFLP licenses are able to practice most areas of Singapore in its own right. Take CC Singapore for example. They practice all areas of SG law except litigation, which is handled by Cavenagh.

(2) “it is far lesser” - Singapore MC associates are paid on a global scale which is at or close to parity with their global peers in London and HK (ex US), with mild adjustments for tax rate differentials. Post-tax, SG and HK associates actually fare better than London associates, with little more than a $1,000 discrepancy between the SG and HK. CC NY is forced to pay Cravath rates because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be able to recruit any decent talent in the US market. Also, “lesser” is not grammatically correct. In Singapore, true “white shoe” outfits such as Milbank and LW pay full Cravath to their SG associates. Given local tax rates, SG White Shoe associates are far far better off than their NY counterparts. And of course nobody does better than the White Shoe associates working out of the UAE, who take zero tax and are often offered COLA on top of salary.

(3) “NQ” - where do I even begin... An “NQ” for the purposes of an SG Big4 is someone who has just passed the Singapore Bar. An “NQ” for the purposes of an SC/MC firm is someone who has just completed two years of rotational practice (ie: four half-year seats), or lateraled in from an SG Big4 as a Year 3 associate. An “NQ” for the purposes of a white shoe firm is someone who’s either just come in fresh off a JD or a mid-tier associate who’s lateraled in from a lower tier outfit (such as MC/SC) and taken a huge PQE haircut. I’ve seen even SG 6PQEs joining white shoe firms on the “NQ” scale.
if you look through the whole thread, there are many people who say the same things as me.

what law school are you from?
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  #4528 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LegalBeagle View Post
You really don’t know a thing about the Singapore market, or the international legal market for that matter. You’re still mired in the lame “NY > London > HK > SG” kind of thinking. Those were the kind of misconceptions people had when they were still in Law School. I urge readers to take everything you say with a fistful of salt. There are so many flaws and stereotypes in your various posts that I don’t know where to begin correcting you. Ivy Lawyer indeed.

(1) “Must partner with local firms” - ever heard of QFLP? International firms with QFLP licenses are able to practice most areas of Singapore in its own right. Take CC Singapore for example. They practice all areas of SG law except litigation, which is handled by Cavenagh.

(2) “it is far lesser” - Singapore MC associates are paid on a global scale which is at or close to parity with their global peers in London and HK (ex US), with mild adjustments for tax rate differentials. Post-tax, SG and HK associates actually fare better than London associates, with little more than a $1,000 discrepancy between the SG and HK. CC NY is forced to pay Cravath rates because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be able to recruit any decent talent in the US market. Also, “lesser” is not grammatically correct. In Singapore, true “white shoe” outfits such as Milbank and LW pay full Cravath to their SG associates. Given local tax rates, SG White Shoe associates are far far better off than their NY counterparts. And of course nobody does better than the White Shoe associates working out of the UAE, who take zero tax and are often offered COLA on top of salary.

(3) “NQ” - where do I even begin... An “NQ” for the purposes of an SG Big4 is someone who has just passed the Singapore Bar. An “NQ” for the purposes of an SC/MC firm is someone who has just completed two years of rotational practice (ie: four half-year seats), or lateraled in from an SG Big4 as a Year 3 associate. An “NQ” for the purposes of a white shoe firm is someone who’s either just come in fresh off a JD or a mid-tier associate who’s lateraled in from a lower tier outfit (such as MC/SC) and taken a huge PQE haircut. I’ve seen even SG 6PQEs joining white shoe firms on the “NQ” scale.
100% agree. Word of caution - don't feed the troll. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.
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  #4529 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ivy lawyer View Post
if you look through the whole thread, there are many people who say the same things as me.

what law school are you from?
Because obviously if you repeat something enough, it becomes true.
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  #4530 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ivy lawyer View Post
if you look through the whole thread, there are many people who say the same things as me.

what law school are you from?
This poor fail troll living in his/her make-belief world. If the Chinatown level use of language isn't enough of a giveaway:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivy lawyer View Post
I have long graduated from yale law school in the us. now practising in HK. i will be applying for exemption in SG soon.
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Originally Posted by ivy lawyer View Post
Salary from Highest to Lowest :-
New York > London > Hong Kong > Singapore

If you look at the websites of the Big 4 of SG, they are mostly staffed with lawyers from NUS. Whereas the "real" Big firms in NY, LN, HK is staffed with people from oxbridge and ivy league, so you are not really comparing apple with apple. I think it is difficult for an NUS lawyer to get employment in NY and LN, maybe HK is the easiest option if they are thinking of getting out of SG. But it is not easy, <strong>they have HKU Law over there and they </strong> are more familiar with the local law.
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Originally Posted by ivy lawyer View Post
HK international law firm, sidley austin is paying hkd60,000 for fresh pcll grads (eqv. to <strong>our part B bar course</strong>) with zero experience. that is about sgd10k for fresh grads
Go figure.
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