Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Friend made similar move. Don't join civil litigation, career progression is almost non-existent for non-scholars. If you want to do civil service, see if you can land an advisory role. That's the bomb if you want work-life balance and good pay.

Agreed that you will get good work-life balance and decent pay with an advisory role in legal service. However, it is currently hard to get in due to the hiring freeze; legal service is hiring against attrition only. So you'll have to wait for someone to leave, and then compete with the rest to get in. Hard but not impossible though.

I wouldn't say that career progression for non-scholars in legal service is almost non-existent. To be fair, the career progression in legal service is, to a large extent, performance driven. It just so happens that the scholars invariably tend to produce better work than the non-scholars and so, it seems as if the non-scholars can't get promoted simply due to the fact that they are non-scholars. There are non-scholars who do fly career wise.

Related alternatives that I think are easier to get in at the moment will be the legal departments of the statutory boards. Career-wise, you will always be a 2nd class citizen to someone who's in legal service/AGC. The pay also isn't as good, although it's still very decent. But if you wish to achieve other objectives such as practising law and still have a life or practise public law, and you can't get into legal service, it's a path worth considering.

[LegalBeagle]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Nice try bro. I think this line is better used at the bar or at one of those NUS or SMU careers' fair. I'm sure you wouldn't mind girls 8 years your junior

I don't recall saying that I wanted to meet only girls. I said I would like to meet ANYONE who meets the criteria and is keen on a move. I'm not available anyway. I'm married with children, and way too overworked to have the libido or energy for an affair.

I find it disturbing that sex seems to be all that's on your mind. Does it seem unreasonable to you that a senior associate witb the opportunity to ease his workload with a new hire and earn a $10,000 referral fee in the process might go hunting for suitable candidates? Some of us are driven by family, money and other considerations. Contrary to your own twisted beliefs, life is not always about sex. Get a life.

[LegalBeagle]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Nice try bro. I think this line is better used at the bar or at one of those NUS or SMU careers' fair. I'm sure you wouldn't mind girls 8 years your junior

And it appears you can't read. What would I be doing at an NUS or SMU careers fair advertising for a role which requires candidates from leading local firms with 2-4 PQE? You're evidently not a lawyer, or if by any sad chance you are, you're clearly a really lousy one.

Originally Posted by LegalBeagle

And it appears you can't read. What would I be doing at an NUS or SMU careers fair advertising for a role which requires candidates from leading local firms with 2-4 PQE? You're evidently not a lawyer, or if by any sad chance you are, you're clearly a really lousy one.

Don't mind him. There are always people with nothing better to do than to put others down online.

On an unrelated note, is being able to understand and speak Mandarin/Kanto a must to work in HK? Also, what PQE is required (or desired) in order to lateral to a HK MC or US firm?

Resources, small in house legal department (<5)
Head of Legal
Annual Fixed: around SGD500,000
Bonus: around SGD100,000
With stock options.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hey!! Glad to find other HK-based lawyers here - I myself am a future HK MC trainee!

Do you know many other Singaporeans or Malaysians working in MC/White shoe firms there?

I agree that the HK corporate/commercial market is more competitive and rewarding than Singapore's.

Since this is salary.com, allow me to share what I know:

Year 1 MC trainees are paid 46-48k and Year 2 MC trainees are paid 48-50k.
White Shoe trainees are paid even more. I know for a fact that Latham pays 60k to a year 1 trainee, go figure.

At NQ level, the gap between MC and US firms statifies further thanks to NY rates. That said, MC firms still pay around 80k to NQs, and some even pay NY rates later on to avoid associate defections to US firms.

Note that MC firms pay their HK associates higher than their London associates - the result of UK firms being forced to compete toe to toe with US firms with neither side having a home country advantage. Coupled with lower tax rates, the financial rewards in HK significantly outpace those of London and Singapore.

There is also a market trend of monolingual expats being pushed out of the market in favour of bilingual lawyers. So yeah, go polish up your Mandarin. It will pay serious dividends.

Oh hey there! What year are you? I'm wondering if you're the Singaporean/ Malaysian trainee my firm has for 2018 haha.

There's a fair number of us actually, more than I expected. There's another poster here who trained in HK and is at a US firm, and I can think of at least 6 current trainees across MC/ US firms, including myself. My firm also has at least 2 Singaporean associates and 1 partner.

If you want to get in touch, create an account and I can shoot you a PM if you reply (:

Your pay brackets for MC trainees is about right. Most international firms will pay around that amount, with the exception of some US firms (eg Davis Polk).

I can also confirm that certain MC firms will pay (or attempt to pay) NY rates past PQE1. My understanding is that there isn't a single "NY rate" in HK though - there's more like three, with the Cravath pay grade being the most expensive. Not all US firms are equal (at least according to my associate).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't mind him. There are always people with nothing better to do than to put others down online.

On an unrelated note, is being able to understand and speak Mandarin/Kanto a must to work in HK? Also, what PQE is required (or desired) in order to lateral to a HK MC or US firm?

Mandarin is very very useful (HK does a lot of Sino work, as you might expect). Canto isn't important for work purposes, but useful for social reasons.

I don't think it's impossible to move to HK without speaking a lick of Mandarin given the number of angmohs/ gwailos at my firm, but it does limit the sort of work you can do. Also, I think HK firms generally have a preference for bilingual speakers. If you have some Mandarin capability, my advice would be to try and get up to speed asap, so you can sell it to HR/ recruiters.

No clue what's the optimal PQE for lateral. I honestly think it depends on the work exposure you have and what the firms need. I've seen recruiting from NQ to partner.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't mind him. There are always people with nothing better to do than to put others down online.

On an unrelated note, is being able to understand and speak Mandarin/Kanto a must to work in HK? Also, what PQE is required (or desired) in order to lateral to a HK MC or US firm?

Cantonese is never a requirement if you are looking at international firms in HK. Mandarin is almost a strict requirement as an entry level hire, but at higher PQE levels firms are willing to overlook Mandarin deficiency if you have other skills of value to offer.

The position they are recruiting for also matters - if you are dealing with mostly mainland clients, impeccable Mandarin is a must.

Originally Posted by LegalBeagle

I don't recall saying that I wanted to meet only girls. I said I would like to meet ANYONE who meets the criteria and is keen on a move. I'm not available anyway. I'm married with children, and way too overworked to have the libido or energy for an affair.

I find it disturbing that sex seems to be all that's on your mind. Does it seem unreasonable to you that a senior associate witb the opportunity to ease his workload with a new hire and earn a $10,000 referral fee in the process might go hunting for suitable candidates? Some of us are driven by family, money and other considerations. Contrary to your own twisted beliefs, life is not always about sex. Get a life.

Don't act la

[LegalBeagle]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Don't act la

If you're so sure I'm a fraudster, why don't you call my bluff? Stop hiding behind a veil of anonymity, create an account, and come down to meet me. We can then see if I'm the real McCoy, of if I am "bluffing la". I'll even treat you to dinner.

Of course, we'll never be colleagues since I'll be permanently blacklisting you after our meeting, and (assuming you're even a lawyer) you'll have fewer exit options if you were looking at joining an MC firm.

But what the hell, it's a small price to pay for finding out the truth isn't it? I await your PM.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Cantonese is never a requirement if you are looking at international firms in HK. Mandarin is almost a strict requirement as an entry level hire, but at higher PQE levels firms are willing to overlook Mandarin deficiency if you have other skills of value to offer.

The position they are recruiting for also matters - if you are dealing with mostly mainland clients, impeccable Mandarin is a must.

Indeed Cantonese is not a requirement now. That said, an open mind towards Cantonese will go a long way in feeling comfortable in this densely packed city, allow you to make some close friends (maybe even finding your other half) here and healthier in the bigger scheme of things. Of course one can choose to be in the exclusive company of expats here.

One reason why HK is such an energetic city is that there are many macro tensions within society with no dominant political group that has the "moral mandate" here, which creates many interstices and lacuna that allow individuals and interest groups to flourish (economically, intellectually and artistically) with less restraint here than in Singapore. It is an anglo-centric city that by tradition with its most celebrated institutions inherited from its colonial past. Today it is undergoing a historic transformation by undergoing a peaceful transition moving its orbit around China. So the question is, where should one be positioned in view of all these? Singapore still seems to be the safer city with better governance, with the administrators deliberately socially engineering our city and preparing us for the future with its various technology policies and smart nation initiatives. But what is there to lose to be in HK when you are young? There...