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Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment

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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 19-05-2015, 12:50 PM
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This guy is correct. Entry level partner is nothing more than a highly paid employee. He may be earning 20k/month only. As you get more senior and take on roles such as head of department, you join the profit sharing scheme where your salary really grows.

FYI I was not referring to senior manager which makes on average 10k/month only. The payscale is as such:
Associate 3k
Senior Associate 4k
Managers 5-8k
Senior Managers 9-11k
Directors 12-16k
Partners 20k and above

The previous poster who used to be director in KPMG can probably agree that my figures are roughly there. There is slight variation between big 4s and departments but the rough idea is there.

Don't be fooled by the "partner" tag... there are many more internal levels for them to climb. But once you make partner you're 99% assured of a job all the way until retirement. It's up to you whether you retire with a 20-30k salary or a 50-100k salary.
Hi, do you know how many partners there are in each Big 4? If possible, within each department too?

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 19-05-2015, 04:55 PM
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Hi, do you know how many partners there are in each Big 4? If possible, within each department too?
Are you thinking of becoming a partner?

Step 1. Keep grinding through the ranks. It will take you around 10 years to reach senior manager, by then you know whether you stand a chance at partner.

Step 2. Now that you are SM, you need a partner slot to open up. One way is you create a new line of business that is so profitable that you are able to be promoted to partner and manage that line of business. Another easier way is when your partner's time is up and he retires, creating a hole that you can potentially fill.

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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 19-05-2015, 05:11 PM
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Are you thinking of becoming a partner?

Step 1. Keep grinding through the ranks. It will take you around 10 years to reach senior manager, by then you know whether you stand a chance at partner.

Step 2. Now that you are SM, you need a partner slot to open up. One way is you create a new line of business that is so profitable that you are able to be promoted to partner and manage that line of business. Another easier way is when your partner's time is up and he retires, creating a hole that you can potentially fill.
Unfortunately after SM you still need to climb 2 levels of AD and 2 more levels of Director. Generally even if you are a high flyer (being made partner is by definition high flyer), it will take at least 20 years to reach junior partner level.

This was my observation in KPMG and my good friend from PWC says it's also around there in PWC. Unless EY/Deloitte is drastically different, I don't think it's realistic to expect to be made partner just by reaching a SM grade.

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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 19-05-2015, 05:19 PM
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This guy is correct. Entry level partner is nothing more than a highly paid employee. He may be earning 20k/month only. As you get more senior and take on roles such as head of department, you join the profit sharing scheme where your salary really grows.

FYI I was not referring to senior manager which makes on average 10k/month only. The payscale is as such:
Associate 3k
Senior Associate 4k
Managers 5-8k
Senior Managers 9-11k
Directors 12-16k
Partners 20k and above

The previous poster who used to be director in KPMG can probably agree that my figures are roughly there. There is slight variation between big 4s and departments but the rough idea is there.

Don't be fooled by the "partner" tag... there are many more internal levels for them to climb. But once you make partner you're 99% assured of a job all the way until retirement. It's up to you whether you retire with a 20-30k salary or a 50-100k salary.
Yes, this matches my experience as well. When I was a Director there for 2 years, my last drawn was 13,300 & no AWS at KPMG. I was pretty surprised that my current employer was able to to offer 14000 for just a manager role and it comes with AWS somemore (think european MNCs practice more conservative titles).

Moral of the story, if you look at the pay scale shared by above poster which is quite accurate, you will realise the pay there is nothing to shout about. It's decent, but not anywhere near what most layman fantasize.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 20-05-2015, 11:24 PM
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Yes, this matches my experience as well. When I was a Director there for 2 years, my last drawn was 13,300 & no AWS at KPMG. I was pretty surprised that my current employer was able to to offer 14000 for just a manager role and it comes with AWS somemore (think european MNCs practice more conservative titles).

Moral of the story, if you look at the pay scale shared by above poster which is quite accurate, you will realise the pay there is nothing to shout about. It's decent, but not anywhere near what most layman fantasize.
Thanks for the insight.

Does the Advisory department pay the same as Audit department too? If it pays higher, approximately how much higher would they pay? For example, if you were a Year-2 Audit Director getting 13,300, how much would an equivalent Year-2 Advisory Director (e.g. M&A or MC) get paid?


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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 21-05-2015, 11:54 AM
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Thanks for the insight.

Does the Advisory department pay the same as Audit department too? If it pays higher, approximately how much higher would they pay? For example, if you were a Year-2 Audit Director getting 13,300, how much would an equivalent Year-2 Advisory Director (e.g. M&A or MC) get paid?
For junior levels below Director, "advisory" is usually paid about 10-15% higher like for like based on what I hear informally. Pay levels start to converge at more mid levels and by the time you reach more senior levels 2-3 rungs up the partnership scheme, there is no discernable difference as pay levels are more dependent on your business line which department you happen to be in.

By the way just to clarify I was not doing auditing in KPMG, but more on financial appraisal / valuation consultation for my clients, so in that sense I suppose I'm more "advisory". It is also not right to just lump everything into M&A or MC as if they are one single monolithic department where the pay and promotion experience is the same.

Bottom line is this, the Big 4 does give you decent career & pay if you are willing to put in the hours, perform to mark and of course last through 10+ years. But if you are thinking of riches & prospects similar to the usual outlying high payers like investment banking, MBB consultancies, big oil, trading etc. then forget about it, there is no way any big 4 can even come close to matching them like for like.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 21-05-2015, 12:16 PM
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For junior levels below Director, "advisory" is usually paid about 10-15% higher like for like based on what I hear informally. Pay levels start to converge at more mid levels and by the time you reach more senior levels 2-3 rungs up the partnership scheme, there is no discernable difference as pay levels are more dependent on your business line which department you happen to be in.

By the way just to clarify I was not doing auditing in KPMG, but more on financial appraisal / valuation consultation for my clients, so in that sense I suppose I'm more "advisory". It is also not right to just lump everything into M&A or MC as if they are one single monolithic department where the pay and promotion experience is the same.

Bottom line is this, the Big 4 does give you decent career & pay if you are willing to put in the hours, perform to mark and of course last through 10+ years. But if you are thinking of riches & prospects similar to the usual outlying high payers like investment banking, MBB consultancies, big oil, trading etc. then forget about it, there is no way any big 4 can even come close to matching them like for like.
Thanks for that - I really appreciate it. What is the bonus structure in Big 4 like?
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 21-05-2015, 03:05 PM
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Unfortunately after SM you still need to climb 2 levels of AD and 2 more levels of Director. Generally even if you are a high flyer (being made partner is by definition high flyer), it will take at least 20 years to reach junior partner level.

This was my observation in KPMG and my good friend from PWC says it's also around there in PWC. Unless EY/Deloitte is drastically different, I don't think it's realistic to expect to be made partner just by reaching a SM grade.
I think it's more of knowing whether you stand a chance or not, rather than getting promoted from SM to partner. It's hard to gauge when you have only worked 5+ years as partner is still many years ahead, but by the time you reach SM partner could be 5 years away only and you should be able to assess the situation to determine if you have a shot.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 21-05-2015, 03:08 PM
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Thanks for that - I really appreciate it. What is the bonus structure in Big 4 like?
Bonus in big 4 is usually a joke. There is no AWS like what the ex-KPMG director said. Average number is 2-3 months, with most getting towards the lower end of that range. If you "deduct" the 13th month bonus that most other companies pay, you're only getting about 1+ month bonus.

Working hours in big 4 is well known, leave it up to you to count if it's worth it financially. Big 4 is often used by people as a stepping stone and not an end point.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 21-05-2015, 04:19 PM
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I think it's more of knowing whether you stand a chance or not, rather than getting promoted from SM to partner. It's hard to gauge when you have only worked 5+ years as partner is still many years ahead, but by the time you reach SM partner could be 5 years away only and you should be able to assess the situation to determine if you have a shot.
5 years is way too optimistic time to get from SM to partner level. Maybe if ur top 1% with luck and support from someone powerful, otherwise for remaining 99% fat hope of jumping from SM to partner in 5 years.
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