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Direct recruitment into non entry-level grades?

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Old 06-07-2011, 05:20 PM
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Default Direct recruitment into non entry-level grades?

I have been working for 8 years already in the gahment sector and am MX12, and I got a job offer earlier this year in a privatized health organization. From what I see the job scope was the same, just a different industry, but I was offered a junior executive position at an entry-level grade.

Which leads me to express my interest in how organizations appraise your past work experience. Is there some scale, and what constitutes 'relevant work experience'? What is needed to get a job offer with a grade higher than fresh graduate level?

My colleagues from other offices who have been getting offers are getting pay increments with new offers, as well as increments to a higher MX11 grade, while all I'm getting are pay cuts and lower grades.

So how does HR decide how much to pay you? Is it a matter of phrasing all your work experience very nicely in your CV? Or impressing them at the interview? I ask because a cv is a summary of all you've done, and may not do justice to all your skills that you've grown.

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Old 06-07-2011, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by miwashi View Post
I have been working for 8 years already in the gahment sector and am MX12, and I got a job offer earlier this year in a privatized health organization. From what I see the job scope was the same, just a different industry, but I was offered a junior executive position at an entry-level grade.

Which leads me to express my interest in how organizations appraise your past work experience. Is there some scale, and what constitutes 'relevant work experience'? What is needed to get a job offer with a grade higher than fresh graduate level?

My colleagues from other offices who have been getting offers are getting pay increments with new offers, as well as increments to a higher MX11 grade, while all I'm getting are pay cuts and lower grades.

So how does HR decide how much to pay you? Is it a matter of phrasing all your work experience very nicely in your CV? Or impressing them at the interview? I ask because a cv is a summary of all you've done, and may not do justice to all your skills that you've grown.
Based on my experience, the objective of HR is to get you in at the cheapest price possible. Always negotiate for the best offer in a professional way. Usually the first offer as you have just encountered is "SUCKS". Renegotiate and justify to them based on your work experience and the job scope, you expect XXX amount. Usually they will look at your last drawn pay and move from there. Jump only when there is at least 15% increment.

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Old 06-07-2011, 08:01 PM
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How do you renegotiate with the gahment sector? I thought you don't.


Anyway I did try last time, with a ministry. They sent a short email back, saying they "ARE UNABLE TO REVISE THE OFFERED SALARY", with that in bold, caps and underlined.

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Old 06-07-2011, 10:57 PM
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Hi Miwashi,

I know how you feel exactly. I am now in my 5th year in a government job and have been finding it hard to even clinch an interview for jobs that seem to fit my expertise to a T.

The problem is that, for the last 5 years, instead of actually DOING the stuff I am applying for, I have been involved in the regulatory aspects of the same. Employers just don't see that, by facilitating farmers, I haven't at all, lost the skills of ploughing the fields and sowing the seeds.

OK, enough of the metaphor....

Employers (those whom I interviewed for) ask the same questions. For example...

1. You haven't been hands-on for 5 years. At this price, I can get someone who have actually done it for 10 years. So I can only pay you $X. Do you want to do it? I actually said yes and his reply is that he will only pay me 80% of my last drawn. I said yes to that too, and he said he doesn't think it will work for me. That particular guy never called back after 1 interview.

2. Why did you want to leave? This is very comfortable pay you are drawing. Here we work long hours. When I told him that I understand what it entails to move back to the industry, his reply was that the hours are long and I wouldn't be able to get used to it.

3. You understand that when you left 5 years ago, it was going to be difficult to return? I explained that I never left and that 5 years of researching, studying, engaging industry, speaking and regulating it only made me more well equiped to do it. The interviewer didn't believe.

I am close to giving up, having suffered setbacks after setbacks, including resumes that seems to have been sent to a blackhole. No answers, no replies. And you know what, I am actually EXPECTING a paycut, hoping for one, and wishing that someone will just make the damn offer! I will take it! I want to move back! But it just isn't happening.

Anyway, just for the records, I spent 5 years in the industry doing it, and 5 years in the regulatory body, overseeing the industry doing it. My last drawn salary, inclusive of bonus was approximately 83k.


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Old 07-07-2011, 12:07 AM
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Anyway, just for the records, I spent 5 years in the industry doing it, and 5 years in the regulatory body, overseeing the industry doing it. My last drawn salary, inclusive of bonus was approximately 83k.
Assuming you have 10 years work experience since graduation, drawing 83K is reasonable. Endure for a while more and should be promoted to MX11.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
How do you renegotiate with the gahment sector? I thought you don't.


Anyway I did try last time, with a ministry. They sent a short email back, saying they "ARE UNABLE TO REVISE THE OFFERED SALARY", with that in bold, caps and underlined.
If it is an entry level job, then it is almost impossible to negotiate. However, if it is a mid-career change, yes, there are some rooms to play.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:48 AM
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OMG.. 10 years and 83k? I've been working 8 years and am not even getting 62k with bonuses! Are you MX12 or 11?

And yes, interviewers in industries just don't see regulatory and policymaking experience as being direct experience in the field.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:43 PM
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OMG.. 10 years and 83k? I've been working 8 years and am not even getting 62k with bonuses! Are you MX12 or 11?

And yes, interviewers in industries just don't see regulatory and policymaking experience as being direct experience in the field.
The place I work doesn't follow the MX scale. But if I am on the lowest grade at its ceiling.

I am on a professional track, doing work relevant to what I used to do in the industry. I am sorry for being deliberately shady about the stuffs I do. I am quite determined to keep my 'identity' unguessable.

Anyway, none of these matter. What matters the most is that I am on a track of no return. My industry doesn't want me anymore and I am going to be stuck here for a long time no matter how hard I try.

I have tried everything possible. Networking, applying, sending resumes to friends, even completed a masters so that I can get back in through some mgt assoc programs. None worked. I have tried for 3 years now.

If you though this might have something to do with the way I present myself, nope. I am a toastmaster and a regular speaker at events. And I am ready to take a paycut to return to the industry. Why does it not work for me?
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:58 PM
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Assuming you have 10 years work experience since graduation, drawing 83K is reasonable. Endure for a while more and should be promoted to MX11.
I do want a promotion to the next grade. But that isn't the greatest desire. My greatest desire is to go back to the industry to fight battles! I am not sure if you know how it feels, but the multiple rejections, most saying that what I am doing now isn't relevant is demeaning, demoralizing and a total dent to whatever ego I am left with.

In the industry, I close deals, I run projects, I motivate teams... I mean, I am a go-getter and an important contributor towards my organization's bottom line. The work was tough, but in turbulance, I found satisfaction. I developed camaraderie with the people I worked with. I collected war stories that I could tell my child when he is older.

And then I decided that I wanted to slow down for a while, went into regulatory work for 5 years and never found my way out. Nobody told me 5 years ago that THIS was what I signed up for.

I feel like the spartan who asked to be transferred to the spartan BMT school as an instructor so that I can recuperate from years of war. When I am ready to re-join the 299 spartans, I was told that I no longer have what it takes. How sad....


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Old 08-07-2011, 10:20 AM
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Yes, I know exactly how you feel.

SOmetimes when I go for interviews they say ' you know you've been away for years right? So this is counted as coming back to the industry from something totally different? What is your pain threshold for pay cuts?'

When I hear that I know they're not even going to offer me the job anymore.


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