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  #1001 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:01 AM
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Well, no matter what, if you are still an engineer inside, won't you appreciate better if your HR gives you a peer that is more fitting to the role and will more likely to share your burden than giving you someone where you potentially have to spoon-feed him for quite a good period of time.

I understand that career progression is much harder now, where you must have what it takes to proof your worth instead of what happened in the past where people could just get promote after servicing X years in a certain role.
End of the day, I've seen someone jumping 2 employment grades within 3 years since joining...
Why many engineers are leaving is also due to no recognition of work. Imagine being thrown alone to fix all the issues but in the end it's all the people who washed their hands off the problem gets the credit.

Maybe you are lucky to meet someone very capable to jump 2 grades in 3 years. For me, the person did the same because the boss likes him to the point he can never do wrong.

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  #1002 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:03 AM
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No matter how many capable people entering ST will not be sufficient to share the overloaded task. Organization too top heavy, middle management don't wanna do / can't do technical stuffs, all throw to Junior Engineers. Junior Engineers no progression due to top heavy structure, no career progression, no salary increment. Sooner or later will leave.

Middle/senior management too comfortable in position, after farming and enduring for X years finally drawing a decent amount of salary with old time benefits. Work hard draw $Y amount, chill and relax also draw $Y amount. Why work so hard? With their skill set & management skills can't find job elsewhere too. Therefore, hogging onto a lot of positions.

Why incur cost to re-structure from 4 sectors to 2 clusters with 7 different business areas in this pandemic? To create more positions at the senior management level. Else how to accommodate the so top heavy structure?
The top heavy structure gets nothing done. Many many hurdles just to get an approval for something small.

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  #1003 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:09 AM
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Agreed if you on this, on the other hand. I think what matters is also the attitude and willingness to learn as a fresh grad. I have seen newly joined fresh grads (local U) lacking the proactiveness, giving the heck care attitude, and even being egoistical on making the smallest mistakes on top of being non-technical.
Used to work with many fresh grads during my 5-6 years there. All of them left within a year. They have no basic knowledge, can't learn, won't learn, insist on doing their way as "PM". Landed the project in hot soup, the seniors in technical teams have jump in to put out fire. Threw letter the moment they find a higher paying job.

I agree many of them cannot put down their ego and eat the humble pie.

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  #1004 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:10 AM
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The top heavy structure gets nothing done. Many many hurdles just to get an approval for something small.
Ofc, if not how to justify M3 and M4 position.

If everything is easy, then the company become like sme liao. How to retire and eat snake of everything is fast
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  #1005 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:11 AM
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Used to work with many fresh grads during my 5-6 years there. All of them left within a year. They have no basic knowledge, can't learn, won't learn, insist on doing their way as "PM". Landed the project in hot soup, the seniors in technical teams have jump in to put out fire. Threw letter the moment they find a higher paying job.

I agree many of them cannot put down their ego and eat the humble pie.
No 5k no talk.
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  #1006 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:40 AM
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Agreed if you on this, on the other hand. I think what matters is also the attitude and willingness to learn as a fresh grad. I have seen newly joined fresh grads (local U) lacking the proactiveness, giving the heck care attitude, and even being egoistical on making the smallest mistakes on top of being non-technical.
Even if the people have good attitude and willing to learn. How fast can you progress him/her with such a top heavy management? Most probably also about the same time as his/her peers. Or even slower than scholars. What's the point then?

Btw attitude and willingness to learn won't get your far in ST. You need your boss to like you and big boss to give you opportunities. I've seen too many good engineers not getting their promotion and credits they deserve whereas engineers doing non technical stuffs like events planning, minutes taking during management meeting, airshows and other CCAs getting promoted much faster. These are opportunities not given to all engineers, only engineers with special privilege will be involved. Often not engineering related. Resulting in those promoted engineers lacking in engineering knowledge / experiences.

What's the message the company is driving across? Technical skills not important, bootlick, event planning and other adhoc activities are more important.
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  #1007 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:42 AM
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Let's look from this angle, the average starting salary for CS grads is 5k.
The companies have a few options.
1. Believe they can get better value from experienced hire with the 5k salary, won't hire any fresh grads.
2. Always need a pipeline of decent fresh grads, willing to pay the market rates for these fresh grads.
3. Always need a pipeline of decent fresh grads, but unwilling to pay the market rates. Put up a lower package and hope for surplus of fresh grads.
4. Always need a pipeline of fresh grads of any standard, unwilling to pay the market rates. Pay the bare minimum just maintain the pipeline.

Be glad ST is going with #2. The worse it can do is #4, which it can pretty much cement its poor reputation in the labour market.

Seriously, in this market now, if you're a senior engineer who is still stuck with 5k salary, you can only blame yourself.

lolll, where tf you get the data from that CS fresh grads' avg starting pay is 5k? loll
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  #1008 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 09:45 AM
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No 5k no talk.

i can safely tell u ST won't not offer 5k to fresh engineering grads

because many of the senior engineers have not even hit 5k yet

fresh grads getting 5k will surely disrupt the harmony within the organisation
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  #1009 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 10:51 AM
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2018 fresh grad starting pay 3.5k
2020 fresh grad starting pay 5k

I think the 2018 fresh grad who is 2 years exp now not even 5k if based on am annual average increment of 5%. Should only be around 3.8k but assume star performer. Still only barely 4k...
Which is also consistent with many 2 to 3 years experience tech staff atm.

Fresh grad starting pay 5k.
He better have tonnes of valuable skills.
Maybe he can deliver a scalable, fault tolerant no signal loss, real time system in 1 months.
I bet he don't even know how or where to begin

Then expect senior to teach or guide. Or worst, provide solution.
Sorry. Fresh grad is overpaid. Nothing to teach. The fresh grad can do all the work and take all the risk.
We senior can eat snake at work heheand go home play with our children.
5k is not for everyone. Only that lucky few <5% got that kind of salary.
2018 in 3.8k hitting 4k on 2020 is definitely not star performer as i definitely had much more increment than that guy you were referring to during the pay repackaging plus pay adjustment(only for good performers) during 2019.
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  #1010 (permalink)  
Old 25-11-2020, 10:58 AM
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i can safely tell u ST won't not offer 5k to fresh engineering grads

because many of the senior engineers have not even hit 5k yet

fresh grads getting 5k will surely disrupt the harmony within the organisation
Depends on what engineering electronics, mechanical, chemical engineers ofc not. Their graduate salary also doesn't say 5k.

Conp science, tech, it student, cyber security... Their graduate survey say its around 5k
And gahmen also promoting tech job etc.

So... ST is not made up of only 1 kind of engineers. So obviously 5k starting pay do exists.
Otherwise why would any talent join ST. Its made up of lousy engineers.
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