Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by lifeistough

I got offered a spot in m&a in one of the big4 last week (but I didn't take it as I'm heading to an international firm)

At this point in the application cycle I strongly believe that most of the spots in the m&a department in the big4 firm that has been open for some time have been taken up. I think I was one of the last offers (but then that spot wasn't taken up haha). So again be realistic.

was your offer from a firm that starts with w and ends with p?

and does that belief extends to even the last two big4 firm that has yet to 'officially' open up their application cycles? i've completed internships with all of the big4 and i think i'm pretty set on where i want to go.. alas, it's a numbers game for our batch, what with the oversupply of lawyers. (i'm reading law in the UK, eek!)

[lifeistough]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

was your offer from a firm that starts with w and ends with p?

and does that belief extends to even the last two big4 firm that has yet to 'officially' open up their application cycles? i've completed internships with all of the big4 and i think i'm pretty set on where i want to go.. alas, it's a numbers game for our batch, what with the oversupply of lawyers. (i'm reading law in the UK, eek!)

Hey, yep you're correct on the first. I have friends who have offers from the two big4 who officially aren't open yet tho but idk how many in total there are so I really can't tell. Where are ya aiming?

Yeah this oversupply is really bad for law grads. I've heard of firms milking the situation, hiring more trainees than there are spots for associates, giving conditional offers, putting applicants on hold for months, making applicants include an undertaking in their app (you know who I'm talking about for this one) etc. Ah well that's life I guess the legal industry has been shielded from market forces for too long

I heard from my seniors that they are not getting a training contract offer from the big four despite graduating with a first from UK.
Guess the legal market is really not looking good for fresh law grads.
Does the big four hv a min requirement for UK law grads? Are they looking for something more than a first?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I heard from my seniors that they are not getting a training contract offer from the big four despite graduating with a first from UK.
Guess the legal market is really not looking good for fresh law grads.
Does the big four hv a min requirement for UK law grads? Are they looking for something more than a first?

Previous posts already mentioned: a First from a "lower tier" uni doesn't gaurantee anything. Unfortunately, the Law profession is all about big names and prestige...

^poster is correct. Outside of the top 3 - 4 UK unis (Oxbridge, UCL etc) a first doesnt guarantee anything, at least in the big4 and top mid firms. Even high 2nd uppers in NUS/SMU have to scramble for tcs

Originally Posted by lifeistough

Hey, yep you're correct on the first. I have friends who have offers from the two big4 who officially aren't open yet tho but idk how many in total there are so I really can't tell. Where are ya aiming?

I've already received an offer from the firm that made you one But I'm hoping to get an offer with a firm of equal standing in corp work (you should know which one I'm referring to)

In response to the slightly patronising (?) posts above that I suspect may be by the same individual(s) - just for some context, I'm attending a upper-mid tier uni outside of London with a strong 2:1. I have received rejections from two mid/small sunset firms but I've also received offers from "big/top mid" firms. I also have batch mates with firsts who got their offers even before summer ended.

I recognise the scramble and I recognise that the uni you come from does count. My friends in lower tiered unis are not getting jobs but if you're within the usual batch of top/mid-tiered unis - it's not *that* bad and no you will not end up doing conveyancing in some AMK firm. Don't panic (yet)

Also (1) grades are not end all be all, your cv/CCA/personality counts too. Strong 2:1s and above should at least get you some consideration. (2) interning with a firm would definitely help and if you shine really brightly, it may lead to an offer, who knows. (3) apply early!!
At the end of the day I personally feel that it's a combination of everything - there's no magical formula behind this. But graduating with a first always helps

Just my twocents & speaking out of my own personal experiences with this cycle thus far

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I've already received an offer from the firm that made you one But I'm hoping to get an offer with a firm of equal standing in corp work (you should know which one I'm referring to)

In response to the slightly patronising (?) posts above that I suspect may be by the same individual(s) - just for some context, I'm attending a upper-mid tier uni outside of London with a strong 2:1. I have received rejections from two mid/small sunset firms but I've also received offers from "big/top mid" firms. I also have batch mates with firsts who got their offers even before summer ended.

I recognise the scramble and I recognise that the uni you come from does count. My friends in lower tiered unis are not getting jobs but if you're within the usual batch of top/mid-tiered unis - it's not *that* bad and no you will not end up doing conveyancing in some AMK firm. Don't panic (yet)

Also (1) grades are not end all be all, your cv/CCA/personality counts too. Strong 2:1s and above should at least get you some consideration. (2) interning with a firm would definitely help and if you shine really brightly, it may lead to an offer, who knows. (3) apply early!!
At the end of the day I personally feel that it's a combination of everything - there's no magical formula behind this. But graduating with a first always helps

Just my twocents & speaking out of my own personal experiences with this cycle thus far

I don't get a sense that he or she was being patronising; merely stating a fact.

Something to bear in mind also is the question of retention. Many firms are willing to take in more trainees than they need for the RLT and TC periods. Whether all are retained is another matter. Of course a TC is not a guarantee of employment, but some firms have better track record of retention, others have an atrocious record.

Alas, Singapore does not have a developed legal market where firms' retention rates are closely monitored in legal industry magazines or websites. Hence, firms can do these things with impunity without fear of impact on their reputation. In the UK for instance, students in the subsequent years know which big firms have a poor retention rates for the preceding batches. In any case, it appears to be an hirer's market now. Nothing much for us to do but to suck thumb and accept what we have.

Just something to keep in mind if you're lucky to have options. Ask around. Just don't ask the firms themselves because they will never give you the real answer.

There is some truth that not all TCs will materialize into an offer even after getting called to the bar. Some firms I've heard are offering (substantially) more TCs than they can realistically take in after the end of the TCs. I have seen some sad cases even from the Big4 where the trainees became jobless after getting called to the bar. I don't think anyone is being patronizing here. Just to put a word out that the legal scene has changed quite drastically and quickly in the last couple of years and if you want to stay on top of the game, you really have to do and try whatever it takes - tip top grades, big name Unis, sterling recommendations etc. but its not the same to mean you are doomed if anything lesser.

Judging from what has been discussed, is it safe to assume that the corp dept in the only big four that has been open for some time now is full? Not too sure why even with a predicted first in a mid-tier UK uni, I am having difficulty securing a TC interview with that 'particular' big 4 firm - which I am keen on.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Judging from what has been discussed, is it safe to assume that the corp dept in the only big four that has been open for some time now is full? Not too sure why even with a predicted first in a mid-tier UK uni, I am having difficulty securing a TC interview with that 'particular' big 4 firm - which I am keen on.

Well speaking from experience and observation, many bright-eyed law students overestimate their chances prior to hiring season (solid CVs, and 'I'll wow them during the interview!!'...post hiring season, these same ones are brought back down to earth because they didn't even receive an interview email or call.

I'm not saying this to bring you down. I'm saying this so that you assess your chances realistically, take stock of what is going on in the market currently, and not be fixated on a particular firm or practice area. Do you really NEED to be in that particular firm? Do you really need to be in a Big 4 firm for that matter, aside from the fact that it sounds nice? That particular practice group?

The very simple answer is that there are too many attractive candidates. There are a lot of predicted 'Firsts' from the UK in your peer patch (not to mention the strong 2:1s). Don't forget you're also fighting against the Dean's Listers from SMU and NUS, and the strong second-uppers. Unless you're a predicted First from Oxbridge, be mentally prepared to slog it out, especially in this market.