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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2012, 03:11 PM
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Default Securities trader

Thanks for the insight. Is it possible for anyone without physical trading exp to end up doing
paper trading in commodities firms?

I'd be surprised if there is quite a fair amt of speculative outright trading besides the hedging, basis arbitrage, spread trades etc. (Other than the biggest firms) I think this is under the media/public's radar..

I suspect the big money makers mentioned in this salary forum are referring to the physical traders, who can bring in the deals due to well established relationships.

Just speaking from a purely layman's point of view. Experienced ppl/insiders pls kindly contribute. Thanks!

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 21-04-2012, 10:48 PM
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now my friend, if you are not entirely sure of what's going in the commod trading market, then probably you shldn't comment.

to be a good physical (i reckon you meant oil) trader, you better make sure you start off with operations...and a good physical trader isn't just relationship building/biz development or old boys thing...oil scheduler?? the position is called operators, an oil scheduler is somebody that works for the refinery and out of every 20, only 1 will ever have the chance of being a trader...

there's a reason why physical traders are always more sought after than paper traders...let's put it simply a good physical trader can be a paper trader but a good paper trader can never be a good physical trader...

qte-
In commodities house like mitsui, glencore, noble, etc, usually paper trades (i.e. swaps, futures, options) are used in conjunction with physical for arbitrage, relative value, capturing contango effect, etc
Pure paper traders usually sit in investment banks. Goldman Sachs (J Aaron), JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley run desks here. They do mostly market-making, managing client flows earning bid-ask spread while running some basis risk.

Prospect is good if you are get in.
Physical trading tends to be more relationship building, business development type with well-establised old boy network.
Paper traders tend to be very well-educated quantitative type usually comes from ivy league, similar to financial derivatives trader.

To get into physical trading, most start off as oil scheduler i.e. someone who sorts out the logistic part of physical delivery of oil.
To get into paper trading, you should join management trainee program in GS, JPM or MS.
unqte-

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 22-04-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
now my friend, if you are not entirely sure of what's going in the commod trading market, then probably you shldn't comment.

to be a good physical (i reckon you meant oil) trader, you better make sure you start off with operations...and a good physical trader isn't just relationship building/biz development or old boys thing...oil scheduler?? the position is called operators, an oil scheduler is somebody that works for the refinery and out of every 20, only 1 will ever have the chance of being a trader...

there's a reason why physical traders are always more sought after than paper traders...let's put it simply a good physical trader can be a paper trader but a good paper trader can never be a good physical ....
my friend perhaps you are not from this industry - operator and scheduler means the same thing. Just look this linkedin Peter Baiardi | LinkedIn
Most ppl call themselves scheduler rather than operator

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2012, 01:35 PM
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Clearly u r not in the line. Waste of my time to explain/argue, u can try and act what u want. But Firstly they are called operators and secondly I believe my last 8 years trading in both an oil major and trading house shld be sufficient experience to know what I'm talking about.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
there's a reason why physical traders are always more sought after than paper traders...let's put it simply a good physical trader can be a paper trader but a good paper trader can never be a good physical trader...
+1 i'm a physical commodity trader.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2013, 03:09 PM
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My company does trading of oil and gas. Pls do drop me a PM if u have any suppliers and buyers. Thanks!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 28-11-2013, 12:08 PM
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anyone else in this line?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 10:57 PM
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Looks like the commodities line is quite quiet or lacking interest. Maybe i post some salary related information and people might get more interested to join. My history has always been in physical commodities with some paper experience.

I started 7years ago as operations assistant in a metals company. Salary 3k. Promoted to junior trader just before i left after 1 year. Slight increment to 3.2k.

Jumped to agriculture sector as junior trader and annual increment exercise salary went up to 3.85k. This is at yr3.

For Yr4, i left the commodities industry for personal reasons and didn't do much work actually. Did my own thing and see more things around the world.

Yr4, i came back into the industry after realising i still love the industry. I got this opportunity through a recommendation. 5.6k.

Yr5, internal increment as did well 7k. Then nearly got poached to go into my previous sector. Discussed nicely with my boss my situation. 10k.

Yr6, still 10k. Left the company after having differing opinions on work with new bosses

Yr7, started in new company 12k.

Above just base salary only.

I realised once i hit about 5-6k. I was contented already. I didn't spend necessarily more when i earned more after that and didn't really need to work for the money. Just worked for enjoying it and love the challenge. Drive a simple car for family use. Can afford some luxuries once in a while. Give more to charity and to church. So pretty happy.

I have been deeply blessed to rise up like that although yes i know there are others better than me but more important is i'm contented with what i have and plan to give more as i earn more as really don't need it. There are still alot of poor and struggling people in Singapore so i donate to charities who target these groups mostly.

Cheers
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2014, 03:20 AM
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just got into agri comm paper trader via programming strategy. it's like a normal futures contract together with S&P500, corn, wheat, lean hog, etc. it's not something one can get into via exams or qualifications. new reports tend to give less focus on agri comm, which explains more arbitrage opportunities, like what my shop is currently doing. if you want to come in, be prepared for plenty of hard work. you are up against really experienced people here.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2014, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Looks like the commodities line is quite quiet or lacking interest. Maybe i post some salary related information and people might get more interested to join. My history has always been in physical commodities with some paper experience.

I started 7years ago as operations assistant in a metals company. Salary 3k. Promoted to junior trader just before i left after 1 year. Slight increment to 3.2k.

Jumped to agriculture sector as junior trader and annual increment exercise salary went up to 3.85k. This is at yr3.

For Yr4, i left the commodities industry for personal reasons and didn't do much work actually. Did my own thing and see more things around the world.

Yr4, i came back into the industry after realising i still love the industry. I got this opportunity through a recommendation. 5.6k.

Yr5, internal increment as did well 7k. Then nearly got poached to go into my previous sector. Discussed nicely with my boss my situation. 10k.

Yr6, still 10k. Left the company after having differing opinions on work with new bosses

Yr7, started in new company 12k.

Above just base salary only.

I realised once i hit about 5-6k. I was contented already. I didn't spend necessarily more when i earned more after that and didn't really need to work for the money. Just worked for enjoying it and love the challenge. Drive a simple car for family use. Can afford some luxuries once in a while. Give more to charity and to church. So pretty happy.

I have been deeply blessed to rise up like that although yes i know there are others better than me but more important is i'm contented with what i have and plan to give more as i earn more as really don't need it. There are still alot of poor and struggling people in Singapore so i donate to charities who target these groups mostly.

Cheers
That was really awesome. Can you pls share what were the bonuses like as well? Thanks
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