Fresh Graduates Salary 2013 & Interviews

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Why the need to look down on SIM grad? Or is it because your previous boss hired an SIM grad over yiou?

Not all SIM students are what you think, and not all NUS/NTU/SMUs students are that high up there either. Please do not steoreotype.

I would say that the pool of students in SIM that are hardworking is lesser than that of local unis, but it does not mean that ALL of them are less hardworking.

Agree, probably only 90% of SIMs are lousier than local uni grads, sometimes you are lucky to get the 10% that is good.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Agree, probably only 90% of SIMs are lousier than local uni grads, sometimes you are lucky to get the 10% that is good.

Exactly.

I really hope that you guys will at least give them a chance.
My friend slogged day and night, everyday from 8am to 9pm to get his grades. He graduated with a 2nd upper, 3 marks short of a FCH. He applied to various Audit firms.

And you guys know what? An audit company just called him up and said, oh sorry we do not accept UOL graduates here. Come on, it's not as if ALL SIM graduates are useless. There are still a handful of them that are working hard to fight for their future.

Screw the stereotypes.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Exactly.

I really hope that you guys will at least give them a chance.
My friend slogged day and night, everyday from 8am to 9pm to get his grades. He graduated with a 2nd upper, 3 marks short of a FCH. He applied to various Audit firms.

And you guys know what? An audit company just called him up and said, oh sorry we do not accept UOL graduates here. Come on, it's not as if ALL SIM graduates are useless. There are still a handful of them that are working hard to fight for their future.

Screw the stereotypes.

I think you guys have to be realistic here. It's not that companies purposely discriminate or sterotype SIM, it is because they they know from hiring experience over many years that SIM have a much higher probability of lousy calibre than local uni grads.

Think of it this way, you have 2 position, 10 local uni applicants and 5 SIM applicants. From exp you know local uni 60% chance decent calibre and SIM 10% chance decent calibre. Which hiring manager in the right mind will ignore all the 10 local uni grads and take up the risk of hiring the SIM? Maybe in super boom markets when they cannot find enough local uni grads, but certainly not the current market where the number of local unis scrambling for jobs in good companies exceed the no. of vacancies.

Are there good SIM and bad NUS/SMU/NTU? Of course.

Is this fair to the good SIM? Nope.

But put yourself as the boss of an audit firm or hiring manager, if given a choice will you pick a SIM over a SMU if both come across as decent above average during interview?

this is just low level thinking by the not so smart.

if i am the boss, i will def go for the sim grad as they are more street smart and entrepruner and know how to get things done compare to the local grads who are more taking exams good.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think you guys have to be realistic here. It's not that companies purposely discriminate or sterotype SIM, it is because they they know from hiring experience over many years that SIM have a much higher probability of lousy calibre than local uni grads.

Think of it this way, you have 2 position, 10 local uni applicants and 5 SIM applicants. From exp you know local uni 60% chance decent calibre and SIM 10% chance decent calibre. Which hiring manager in the right mind will ignore all the 10 local uni grads and take up the risk of hiring the SIM? Maybe in super boom markets when they cannot find enough local uni grads, but certainly not the current market where the number of local unis scrambling for jobs in good companies exceed the no. of vacancies.

Are there good SIM and bad NUS/SMU/NTU? Of course.

Is this fair to the good SIM? Nope.

But put yourself as the boss of an audit firm or hiring manager, if given a choice will you pick a SIM over a SMU if both come across as decent above average during interview?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

this is just low level thinking by the not so smart.

if i am the boss, i will def go for the sim grad as they are more street smart and entrepruner and know how to get things done compare to the local grads who are more taking exams good.

Actually that comment itself is a sweeping statement. On what basis are you saying that SIM grads are more street smart and "entrepreneurial" as compared to the local grads?

At least I can say that most local grads are definitely smarter than SIM grads. Reason as you've stated: Able to score well at exams. You definitely need to be smart enough to process what you've studied to apply them during the exam to score well. You may argue that some people are late bloomers, and hence did not score well for "A" levels or during their poly stints. Then those ain't smart enough. Conversely, you would say people who skipped grades and received their tertiary education at a young age (e.g. graduate at age 16) as geniuses wouldn't you?

Scoring well for exams isn't as easy as what people make it up to be. Those who say its easy are either really intelligent, bull-shitting, or just plain lucky during exams.

I'll give an analogy to summarize. Imagine you're playing an RPG and your character is a sorceress. Would you wish that you have:

1) high mana but low number of spells for now (i.e. local grad with intelligence, but lack of experience to put knowledge to use, aka street smart); or
2) high number of spells but low mana (i.e. SIM grad that's street smart, but not so "book smart").

Mind, you can still learn new spells along the way, but the inherent mana difference between the two options at the start will always be there even if mana level increases as you level up.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Actually that comment itself is a sweeping statement. On what basis are you saying that SIM grads are more street smart and "entrepreneurial" as compared to the local grads?

At least I can say that most local grads are definitely smarter than SIM grads. Reason as you've stated: Able to score well at exams. You definitely need to be smart enough to process what you've studied to apply them during the exam to score well. You may argue that some people are late bloomers, and hence did not score well for "A" levels or during their poly stints. Then those ain't smart enough. Conversely, you would say people who skipped grades and received their tertiary education at a young age (e.g. graduate at age 16) as geniuses wouldn't you?

Scoring well for exams isn't as easy as what people make it up to be. Those who say its easy are either really intelligent, bull-shitting, or just plain lucky during exams.

I'll give an analogy to summarize. Imagine you're playing an RPG and your character is a sorceress. Would you wish that you have:

1) high mana but low number of spells for now (i.e. local grad with intelligence, but lack of experience to put knowledge to use, aka street smart); or
2) high number of spells but low mana (i.e. SIM grad that's street smart, but not so "book smart").

Mind, you can still learn new spells along the way, but the inherent mana difference between the two options at the start will always be there even if mana level increases as you level up.

That's actually a pretty good analogy right there. I just want to point out as well, I'm not sure why SIM grads always say that they are 'street smart' and 'entrepreneurial' while local grads are not. I find it pretty stupid. Just because I'm smart and have crazy math skills doesnt mean I cant give presentations and be creative. People can be both. People can be neither as well. But its pretty much assured that local grads are smarter. 'Street-smart' is so intangible that anyone can put 'street-smart' in their resume and there wouldnt be any proper way to justify it or even quantify it. IMO, those who say that they are street-smart just cant prove themselves quantitatively with grades and hence try to claim that their non-existent strengths lie in an unquantifiable aspect such as street smarts.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Exactly.

I really hope that you guys will at least give them a chance.
My friend slogged day and night, everyday from 8am to 9pm to get his grades. He graduated with a 2nd upper, 3 marks short of a FCH. He applied to various Audit firms.

And you guys know what? An audit company just called him up and said, oh sorry we do not accept UOL graduates here. Come on, it's not as if ALL SIM graduates are useless. There are still a handful of them that are working hard to fight for their future.

Screw the stereotypes.

Exactly the reason why your friend is not hired. Slogged everyday from 8am to 9pm and still only achieved a second upper? He should be getting FCH no less. Says a lot about his calibre.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Exactly.

I really hope that you guys will at least give them a chance.
My friend slogged day and night, everyday from 8am to 9pm to get his grades. He graduated with a 2nd upper, 3 marks short of a FCH. He applied to various Audit firms.

And you guys know what? An audit company just called him up and said, oh sorry we do not accept UOL graduates here. Come on, it's not as if ALL SIM graduates are useless. There are still a handful of them that are working hard to fight for their future.

Screw the stereotypes.

If he were to study at one of the 3 local unis, do you think he will even get honours? different playing field, he will be competing with total different kinds of people...local unis have talents from all over the world and they will be your competitors...

Fresh grad NUS 2nd upper
Good Extra curriculars
Good internships

Company: Strategy consulting firm
Starting pay: 8k
Industry/Job: Consulting
Bonus: up to 20% base salary + profit sharing

Local 2nd lower degree grad in 2013
Starting pay: 2k (contract with MNC)
Current pay: 3.2k (perm with SME)
Job: Analyst