My plan for breaking into finance sector

Originally Posted by Advisor

No. I wanted to be a trader. Just a trader in a dealing room without know what exactly is a trader and a trader of what 10 years back (just like a lot of bros here). Cannot even tell then what is the diff between prop trader, position trader, sales trader or just execution trader (or "dealer"). Don't know there were FX trader, equity trader, swap trader, money market trader, commodity trader, derivative trader in a banking dealing room.. just naive enough to think of being a trader and hopefully someone would taught me the tricks (which of course not)... Anyway, beside a short stint as a FI sales dealer in a small shop where there is a blurring of line between sales, dealing and trading, I ended up in the "2nd best" choice of Treasury sales

Are u doing treasury sales in consumer banking or global markets? There's a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Are u doing treasury sales in consumer banking or global markets? There's a huge difference.

I done both before but don't wish to go into details what I am doing now. I did Financial Institutional (FI) Sales in global markets selling swaps, derivatives, structured products , fixed income to other FIs and also in consumer banking DCI, equity linked, accumulator, bonds, basic FX to the high networth individual. Although on surface, it seems to be a huge difference in prestige, knowledge, exposure and possibly income, but in reality not much difference in compensation. The big bucks are not only earned in Goldman Sachs dealing room as a interest rate derivative sales director for example but also insignificant local bank TSO doing a normal day-in day-out buying and selling of AUD from and to SGD. You will be surprised by how much the latter can earn as compared to those guys in dealing room....

I dont know if you can consider me a successful career switched since I've always been in financial services. My path to front office was like this:

1. Ops role. Trade Ops.
2. Credit risk. Corporate bank.
3. Support role. Relationship management.
4. Relationship management.
5. Investment banking. Corporate finance.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It's sad that jobs that add much more real value to the world aren't being as well rewarded, and all the smartest brains are flocking into this abstract business of moving money. ..

who said they were the "smartest brains"? Look at how these so-called intelligent people try to act smart by discouraging a fellow human being from pursuing his goals? Seems to me just a bunch of shallow, insecure guys trying to act smart.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

who said they were the "smartest brains"? Look at how these so-called intelligent people try to act smart by discouraging a fellow human being from pursuing his goals? Seems to me just a bunch of shallow, insecure guys trying to act smart.

Well, if u say so.

All i'm saying is, try if u want. But be cognizant that its not easy and not many succeed in switching. I did but i got lucky. Not sure if i can replicate if i were to try again.

Of course , dont try, you have no chance. So by all means try, but do so w ur eyes open, and dun be bitter if u end up w the short end of the stick. I steeled myself such that i do not regret regardless of ouycome.

Gd luck.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is the scale based on pay? Why is quant research ranked alongside market risk?
Why is research ranked below structuring and sales?

Quant research develops pricing models for products, usually housed in similar department as market risk

Vp pay scale

FO
Traders, m&a bankers - 280k, 12mth bonus
Sales, advisory
Structuring
Research - 220k, 6mth

MO
Market risk, Quantitative research - 200k, 6 mth
Credit risk
Compliance, legal - 180k, 4mth

BO
Operation risk 150k, 3mth
Finance
IT
Ops 140k, 3mth

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Quant research develops pricing models for products, usually housed in similar department as market risk

Vp pay scale

FO
Traders, m&a bankers - 280k, 12mth bonus
Sales, advisory
Structuring
Research - 220k, 6mth

MO
Market risk, Quantitative research - 200k, 6 mth
Credit risk
Compliance, legal - 180k, 4mth

BO
Operation risk 150k, 3mth
Finance
IT
Ops 140k, 3mth

there are differences in pay in local and foreign banks. Even in foreign banks, there are the BBs and the non BBs.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I done both before but don't wish to go into details what I am doing now. I did Financial Institutional (FI) Sales in global markets selling swaps, derivatives, structured products , fixed income to other FIs and also in consumer banking DCI, equity linked, accumulator, bonds, basic FX to the high networth individual. Although on surface, it seems to be a huge difference in prestige, knowledge, exposure and possibly income, but in reality not much difference in compensation. The big bucks are not only earned in Goldman Sachs dealing room as a interest rate derivative sales director for example but also insignificant local bank TSO doing a normal day-in day-out buying and selling of AUD from and to SGD. You will be surprised by how much the latter can earn as compared to those guys in dealing room....

Hi Advisor, from your experience, how much does the average treasury sales person in consumer banking make? I understand alot depends on luck..which RMs u're tagged to..i don't think every TSO makes 10k a mth? I have 2 frens, 1 RM 1 TSO..both not hitting comms.. How much do u think is the average or slightly above average TSO making?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi Advisor, from your experience, how much does the average treasury sales person in consumer banking make? I understand alot depends on luck..which RMs u're tagged to..i don't think every TSO makes 10k a mth? I have 2 frens, 1 RM 1 TSO..both not hitting comms.. How much do u think is the average or slightly above average TSO making?

Thanks!

I think on an annual package and hitting comms, TSO average is about 120k to 150k all in. I know people not hitting comm, ,maybe at 70k pa and also people hitting more than $1m (annual all in, in 2007, the jackpot year). Even the "above average" that year at 400k to 500k can beat mediocre traders or investment banker..

Originally Posted by Advisor

I think on an annual package and hitting comms, TSO average is about 120k to 150k all in. I know people not hitting comm, ,maybe at 70k pa and also people hitting more than $1m (annual all in, in 2007, the jackpot year). Even the "above average" that year at 400k to 500k can beat mediocre traders or investment banker..

Thanks for sharing. Do u think those in local or foreign banks make more? I heard local banks' treasury sales hit comm more easily becos they have more deposits and accs than the foreign banks.
Also, in the past 2 years, since the set up of the higher tier (aka "private client") of priority/premier banking, alot of high net worth accs hv been migrated to these "private client" tiers, leaving less AUM for RMs and TSOs in priority banking...so do u still think the average TSOs are making 120k-150k today? above average abt 150-200k?