Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

you secured and they didn't tell u?

Big 4 pays competitively? From the 2014 survey it seems like average pay is about 5.5k.

nope, standard practice is they tell you trainee pay but not associate pay (all the TCs ive seen are like this, whether big4 or mid sized or intl)

hi seniors,

was wondering what are the best options for a trainee waiting to get called in aug this year, aspiring to go to a bigger firm.

currently in smallish firm (~20 lawyers), doing general liti (civil claims, crim, family). would it be better to stick it out for 1-2 years getting experience, especially court work?

i'm leaning towards leaving once called i.e. starting at a new place in aug. in that case, when would be the best time to apply? would applying now be too early? and do i apply for associate position to start in august?

i'm an average 2.1 from mid-tier UK uni (still on the list).

thanks!

Some of the comments in this thread really show that they are merely a bunch of quacks or air heads..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

hi seniors,

was wondering what are the best options for a trainee waiting to get called in aug this year, aspiring to go to a bigger firm.

currently in smallish firm (~20 lawyers), doing general liti (civil claims, crim, family). would it be better to stick it out for 1-2 years getting experience, especially court work?

i'm leaning towards leaving once called i.e. starting at a new place in aug. in that case, when would be the best time to apply? would applying now be too early? and do i apply for associate position to start in august?

i'm an average 2.1 from mid-tier UK uni (still on the list).

thanks!

I would say a lot depends on whether you are happy with your current boss, team and work flow. The team could well be more important than the name of the firm and 20 plus lawyers is not too smallish actually.

I think applying right now would be too early. I won't want to give the prospective new firm the impression that I got some major issue that's why I am leaving my current TC firm so quick or that the firm decided to dump me so early in my tc. My 2 cents worth..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I would say a lot depends on whether you are happy with your current boss, team and work flow. The team could well be more important than the name of the firm and 20 plus lawyers is not too smallish actually.

I think applying right now would be too early. I won't want to give the prospective new firm the impression that I got some major issue that's why I am leaving my current TC firm so quick or that the firm decided to dump me so early in my tc. My 2 cents worth..

thanks for the input. my firm generally does lower value and less complex work, hence i'm concerned about career advancement/prospects. as mentioned, general liti makes up the bulk of cases; we do simple corp work but never any M&A, IPOs etc.

in that case when would be a good time to apply in your opinion? before or after call?

hi guys, currently in my 2nd year now (local uni) and doing my research on firms (:

im particularly interested in small/mid firms. however ive been hearing from my seniors that certain small/mid firms (such as lee & lee, khattar) are becoming 'sunset' firms due to their inability to attract more complex corp work. wld love to hear some opinions on this esp from those already working in the industry. TIA!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

thanks for the input. my firm generally does lower value and less complex work, hence i'm concerned about career advancement/prospects. as mentioned, general liti makes up the bulk of cases; we do simple corp work but never any M&A, IPOs etc.

in that case when would be a good time to apply in your opinion? before or after call?

I've been in practice for a fair amount of time and have seen a variety of work. And this is just my opinion.

There isn't anything more glamorous or more prestigious about complex corp work or IPOs. Whether you are a partner or a low level practice trainee, you are just helping rich people become richer. After a while, you just get pretty jaded about it. Such "complex" and glamorous work simply has no application to the man on the street. Not to mention, the hours are just generally longer and the work is pretty damn boring.

Yes, general Liti or civil claims doesn't pay as well as advance corp. But come on, it's not as if we are making peanuts. Look at some of the threads here regarding the accounting firms. A fresh entry associate in a law firm could easily be making more than a 5th year accountin person in a big 4 acct firm. The work in small firms is generally more fulfilling, and you get a lot more freedom in managing an entire file by yourself. That is far more fun and far less stressful than M&A work; if you screw up an accident claim or small civil file, you are much less likely to get fired, than if you screw up a multimillion IPO offering.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

hi guys, currently in my 2nd year now (local uni) and doing my research on firms (:

im particularly interested in small/mid firms. however ive been hearing from my seniors that certain small/mid firms (such as lee & lee, khattar) are becoming 'sunset' firms due to their inability to attract more complex corp work. wld love to hear some opinions on this esp from those already working in the industry. TIA!

I'm in one of these so called small/mid firms. Any idea why you're particularly interested in this tier of firms?

It is true that mid tier firms are losing ground due to industry outlook. Legal market isn't doing very well. Don't be wowed by the lay prestige of lawyers. There is a stratification in that the top tier (big 4 and internationals) will continue to get cutting edge transactional work, and the mid tiers fight for all the smaller deals that remain. there is a lot of undercutting in fees and this translates to lesser partner earnings, which means lower associate pay and/or letting some people go.

in fact, this trend mirrors the global legal industry in other markets as well, e.g. UK and USA.

all this is of course contingent on the assumption that you want to do transactional work. if you are looking at litigation/dispute resolution, its not so much the brand name and size of the deal, but the experience that you get when working on cases. many good litigators started out in lesser known firms too.

as a trainee, if you can get into a top tier firm for transactional work, good job, provided you can stomach the hours. the mid tier's quality of life is better, but the brand name (or lack thereof) will set you back if you're aiming to be a top flight corporate lawyer.

as for "sunset firms" or not, this is beyond your payscale (apart from impacting your hiring or retention chances), and once you reach a level on the payscale where it actually concerns you, you'll hopefully have options to move around for greener pastures.

still, nothing is set in stone. even some corporate partners in top firms and ranked on IFLR, Legal 500 etc have come from humbler beginnings. once you reach 3-4 PQE, you have options - its how you spin your experiences and CV.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Some of the comments in this thread really show that they are merely a bunch of quacks or air heads..

Sounds like a true-blue lawyer to me

Let me tell you my story. I had a tough time finding a training contract. I was reject by the Big Four, and many of the other well-known boutique firms. Thankfully, I managed to get a training contract with a medium-sized firm, and I was given very good training and opportunity by the firm.

I became very good at what I am doing (some specialized skills) that my name became relatively well-known in the field. I was headhunted by the Big Four (I rejected all of them), some big international firms based in Singapore, some Joint Law Ventures/Formal Law Alliances, and some Fortune 500 companies for an in-house role. I am now at one of the big international firms.

For those who are having difficulties finding a training contract, do not be too picky with the brand. Of course, bigger firms have bigger deals, but you will likely have a small role to play in these deals. You will be lucky if you get to meet clients as a junior in these firms, and will not be provided the opportunity to play a leading role in the deals. Some of the smaller firms can provide you very good training and provide you good opportunities, similar to what I received.