signing on in army(short term) vs working outside

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I used to be a regular, after 6 yrs (old scheme), I get out without any degree cert. It was not easy. Employers don't regard those years of experience in the air force as work experience, in fact to most of them, it is a slackening jobs. I have to suffer pay cut, even though my same peers which did not sign up, is much better pay than me. Also, once you get out, you will be like a tortise in the private sector, everything so different from being a regular. And you will think of job hopping to get a higher pay job. However, if you are willing to work hard and upgrade yourself after the "conversion", you will catch up with your peers of the same age in no time. Now, I am in Sales line and managing a office. It boils down to your personal objective to stay focus and work hard.

The saying always go, the good will leave after 1st contract, the lazy one will stay on. No offence, but this is the way it works. Many regular after ORD goes back to ST Engineering to work on aircraft. IN the first case, they shouldn't have left the airforce.

Thanks for sharing your experience, this is quite the same as my journey as well although I'm from Army.

When I first leave the Army at 30 years old, I underestimated the transition and difficulties ahead.Somehow assume that employers will prefer me as a manager as I have a lot of leadership experience managing a lot of people on the ground. I figured I was leading 90+ men under me with 10 years experience compared to my peers who a lot of them are not even managers yet.

Naively applied for some managerial jobs and either no reply or never make it past first interview. Was actually getting very frustrated after 8 months of jobless until I met an honest enough HR guy to finally tell me what was wrong.

He told me what I had in the army was authority granted to me by the organization, not leadership skills. In pte sector, good managers need to use a combination of bribe, plea, threat, incentive and praise to manage downwards & upwards depending on situation. Throughout the interview I displayed no understanding of this and they could tell that I simply assume that since I had the was employed as manager, I will ask my team to do this do that etc.

Took a steep paycut and start from fresh by joining as a marketing senior executive. Now progress to leading a department & I understand how different managing a diverse group of people who may or may not report to you directly is compared to planning schedules, barking orders at NSF & Specs when I was in Army.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Signing on as regular is quite subjective to people. After signing the bond, some straight away regrets. Because lack of freedom, too many guard duties, always jo bo lan (do nothing), and tons of useless project (so called improvement). Some even drag wearing the uniform in public places. Some decided to break bonds, but only to find that they can be released only at the last year of services. Some prefer to sign on forever, since it is stable, good bonus, not much stress, relax lifestyles, some can work shifts, etc. Some ppl just like to rot in it, so they like to stay inside as a regular. It all depends on the individual.

You should decide whether you want to continue the bond only after you sign the first contracts. No one can reallly decide for you.

I used to be a regular, after 6 yrs (old scheme), I get out without any degree cert. It was not easy. Employers don't regard those years of experience in the air force as work experience, in fact to most of them, it is a slackening jobs. I have to suffer pay cut, even though my same peers which did not sign up, is much better pay than me. Also, once you get out, you will be like a tortise in the private sector, everything so different from being a regular. And you will think of job hopping to get a higher pay job. However, if you are willing to work hard and upgrade yourself after the "conversion", you will catch up with your peers of the same age in no time. Now, I am in Sales line and managing a office. It boils down to your personal objective to stay focus and work hard.
Hmmm, can i ask which vocation you are in?
The saying always go, the good will leave after 1st contract, the lazy one will stay on. No offence, but this is the way it works. Many regular after ORD goes back to ST Engineering to work on aircraft. IN the first case, they shouldn't have left the airforce.

Hmmm, can i ask which vocation you are in?

I believe a lot of regulars leave the forces to work as property agents. Some agents I met address me as "sir".

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hmmm, can i ask which vocation you are in?

Aircraft Snr Tech. I think it is quite similar to what the Aerospace guys are doing now.

Are you serious????? Army management isn't management at all! My Enciks and OCs were the reasons why I knew I made the wrong decision to sign onto the airforce. They always pass down the **** and never took responsibility or defend their men when things go wrong. Always blame the specialists, blame the situation, blame the environment but never willing to own up to their lack of sense and judgement. (I think they watch too much Singapore soccer; they are pretty much like the coaches) I knew there was nothing to learn from them the first year I entered proper into the ..... In fact, I was very certain as long as I do their opposite and grow bigger balls and be a more responsible person, I will go a lot further than them. In the army, it's all about passing the buck, no one's really solving problems. Smart people will wait, observe and then stay away or work as little as possible. Idiots will work hard and think they will be recognized or shoot for yearly "performance (wayang) bonus" of 2-3 months, peanuts (7k?). You find 1 guy working and 9 guys staring usually. Out of the 9 guys, 7 are just plain stupid and lazy, while 2 are really clever and were focusing on what's out rather than what's in.

Many studied, few succeeded in changing lines. Because you don't learn social skills. You can survive outside because you don't grow balls inside. You follow blindly and think the world is managed by rules and regulations on you. And yes, you are "managed" by fear and intimidation.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks for sharing your experience, this is quite the same as my journey as well although I'm from Army.

When I first leave the Army at 30 years old, I underestimated the transition and difficulties ahead.Somehow assume that employers will prefer me as a manager as I have a lot of leadership experience managing a lot of people on the ground. I figured I was leading 90+ men under me with 10 years experience compared to my peers who a lot of them are not even managers yet.

Naively applied for some managerial jobs and either no reply or never make it past first interview. Was actually getting very frustrated after 8 months of jobless until I met an honest enough HR guy to finally tell me what was wrong.

He told me what I had in the army was authority granted to me by the organization, not leadership skills. In pte sector, good managers need to use a combination of bribe, plea, threat, incentive and praise to manage downwards & upwards depending on situation. Throughout the interview I displayed no understanding of this and they could tell that I simply assume that since I had the was employed as manager, I will ask my team to do this do that etc.

Took a steep paycut and start from fresh by joining as a marketing senior executive. Now progress to leading a department & I understand how different managing a diverse group of people who may or may not report to you directly is compared to planning schedules, barking orders at NSF & Specs when I was in Army.