a sad day for engineering

Originally Posted by paymemore

thanks for the quality advice.

perhaps i was too caught up in coding and producing results, and failed to look at the bigger picture from the employer's pov.

i still hold the hope that fresh graduates like me will someday say that engineering has the brightest future in sg.

I am a NUE ME grad myself and I can tell you engineering has fewer oppurtunities and lower average pay compared to other industry like Banking/Finance and Accounting.

Its all due to the Government's direction for the country. When young, I was like thousands of other students listening to our teacher's advice and went engineering as that was the direction the country was taking. Singapore wanted to go into high tech precision manufacturing like Luxenbourg, Belgium and Germany. Then suddenly everyone wanted to study engineering.

Before that it was the Dot.com era and Computer Science faculty was full of people wanting to be Bill Gates and Yahoo Founders.

Just before I graduated the Government announced they wanted to do Life Sciences. Suddenly all the bright minds in Singapore wanted in. In JCs there were increased numbers in people taking Bio and Chem. Look what happen to Life Science? As they say, the brightest minds are now washing test-tubes?

Right now the blue-eyed boy is Banking and Finance, which previously was less sought after. Singapore now wants to be a Banking and Finance hub for the region and for Asia.

Generations of our brightest minds were wasted one after another. What do you do now that your people are of the wrong skill set? Either retrain or bring in FTs. Which one is faster?

Morale of the story is learn something that you can bring along across various industries (Like accounting and IT). And be prepared to be retrained. I was a bit fortunate that my engineering skills were helpful in my IT career (i was concentrating on Mechatronics modules plus my interest was in IT).

Like one of our "leaders" once said to a group of students

"It is easier to retrain an engineer to be an accountant but you will have a hard time training an accountant to be an engineer".

In order not to be caught as the country changes directions look out for signs our government is taking us. Else get out of the country and go somewhere where we engineers are highly valued (e.g. Australia). Even a brick layer and plumber in Australia has more respect and earn more.

I still remember this incident told to me by a vendor. He went over to Australia to visit his NUS friend (same tutorial) and stay at his place. When he reached his friend's house, his friend took him out out to the walkway and made a few calls. Suddenly from across the road came a guy running over and my vendor recognized him as from his NUS tutorial group. Then from the left and right came another 3 more friends also from his own NUS tutorial group. Apparently what happened was my vendor's friend was the first to go Australia. And then he brought his friends along with them as his company expanded (Doesnt this sound familiar?). And now the street of 12 houses 5 of them belong to them.

[Hermit]

Originally Posted by paymemore

thanks for the quality advice.

perhaps i was too caught up in coding and producing results, and failed to look at the bigger picture from the employer's pov.

i still hold the hope that fresh graduates like me will someday say that engineering has the brightest future in sg.

Maybe stop and take a step back, and re-think. Engineering in Singapore has a bright future... but for who and at how much?

Chew on that, buddy.

I certainly hope there is an engineer out there who can step out and say their working life is actually okay.

As a final year engineering undergrad, I feel so hopeless reading all these forum topics.
I don't even feel like dipping my feet into engineering already.
It seems so grim.

[Hermit]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I certainly hope there is an engineer out there who can step out and say their working life is actually okay.

As a final year engineering undergrad, I feel so hopeless reading all these forum topics.
I don't even feel like dipping my feet into engineering already.
It seems so grim.

Hey buddy, it is not doomsday yet.

There are jobs out there. And engineers are decently paid.

It is just that if you look into the future, these jobs will likely go to a cheaper foreigner.

India and China produce more than 1 MILLION engineers from their universities. Trust more than a few to come to our shores.

So... back to demand and supply determining the price, right?

Originally Posted by Hermit

Hey buddy, it is not doomsday yet.

There are jobs out there. And engineers are decently paid.

It is just that if you look into the future, these jobs will likely go to a cheaper foreigner.

India and China produce more than 1 MILLION engineers from their universities. Trust more than a few to come to our shores.

So... back to demand and supply determining the price, right?

engineering really sux, especially the pay, one of my colleague who have been working in the same company St engineering for almost 10 years, 2nd lower honours get only about 4.1k/mth with 2 promotions inclusive!!!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

engineering really sux, especially the pay, one of my colleague who have been working in the same company St engineering for almost 10 years, 2nd lower honours get only about 4.1k/mth with 2 promotions inclusive!!!

I used to be working there then I did a jump. And drawing about 5.4k now. Still low compared to some of my new colleagues at my position (6k to 7k).

10 years getting 4.1k is actually normal in ST. Typical yearly increment is only 2 to 3%. Promotion is around 8 to 10%. Unless you are a "scolar" or Top Talent your chances for promotion is not high. You really need to excel (as a farmer), and outperforming scholars and TT. Even then promotion is not garanteed.

And ST being ST, SAF officers are parachuted into higher management posts. Chances of moving up is even smaller. In fact almost zero. You need to handle many high profile projects to move up.

Some of my ex-colleagues at M2 grade (12 to 15 years in ST, their first job) were only commanding 5k. And these people can really perform and manage vendors. Thats why ST engineers are in hot demand outside as ST is a good training ground. A check with IDA or DSTA you will find that their HR likes ST engineers as they can perform and stay the longest. Your friend might want to consider jumping.

I also believe your friend has been seeing new hires coming in at 5k to 6k with M1 and M2 grades, with lesser years of work experience.

When I went for my interview for my new job, my present supervisor was asking me

"10 years experience and you are getting 4.4k?"

AKA

"10 years already and your pay is so low? Why didnt you leave?"

[paymemore]

i got a software engineering based job thanks to fellow peeps here!

was offered about 3.6k... because i'll be going into a niche area doing mission critical work. of cos this might be low compared to everyone here, but i think this is a start for someone without experience like me.

currently a lot of HR are telling me they prefer Sg citizens due to the new policy over hiring FTs. but at the same time companies are finding it harder to find sg citizens to fill the roles. i'm still not sure how long this new policy is going to hold and i am not too optimistic about my future.

will see how it goes!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I used to be working there then I did a jump. And drawing about 5.4k now. Still low compared to some of my new colleagues at my position (6k to 7k).

10 years getting 4.1k is actually normal in ST. Typical yearly increment is only 2 to 3%. Promotion is around 8 to 10%. Unless you are a "scolar" or Top Talent your chances for promotion is not high. You really need to excel (as a farmer), and outperforming scholars and TT. Even then promotion is not garanteed.

And ST being ST, SAF officers are parachuted into higher management posts. Chances of moving up is even smaller. In fact almost zero. You need to handle many high profile projects to move up.

Some of my ex-colleagues at M2 grade (12 to 15 years in ST, their first job) were only commanding 5k. And these people can really perform and manage vendors. Thats why ST engineers are in hot demand outside as ST is a good training ground. A check with IDA or DSTA you will find that their HR likes ST engineers as they can perform and stay the longest. Your friend might want to consider jumping.

I also believe your friend has been seeing new hires coming in at 5k to 6k with M1 and M2 grades, with lesser years of work experience.

When I went for my interview for my new job, my present supervisor was asking me

"10 years experience and you are getting 4.4k?"

AKA

"10 years already and your pay is so low? Why didnt you leave?"

That's why ST is famous for being a dumping ground for people with not good degrees to train and gain experience before jumping to other companies.

It's also a retirement home for senior people who simply wants to relax at work with an average pay and don't care for promotions.

If belong to either of them, then ST is perfect for you. If not, you'll really suffer with a low pay that will not match up with your hardworking attitude. Sign-on army would be better than joining ST. At least in army its more relaxed and higher pay.