Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25569)

The teaching profession forms a large chunk of the civil service. However, there has not been much discussion about teacher's salaries. How much will a teacher/Subject head/HOD earn, in general, at the age of 30, 35 & 40? By the way, teachers are traditionally the KING of Whiners. U only need to recall how frequent you hear your friends who are teachers complain about the long working hours, heavy workload, recalcitrant students, unreasonable parents...just to name a few. And they get defensive and annoyed when others comment that they get to enjoy school holidays.

************

Before you classify teachers as whiners, please go talk to someone who understands the work of a teacher in Spore. Your comments are unfair and do injustice to the teaching fraternity. No I am not a teacher, in case you think I am one of the "whiners". I am work in energy trading related industry, and truth be told, I think being a teacher is tougher despite my P&L reponsibilities and sometimes, longer working hours.

Ask yourself, can u wake up at 5.45am everyday, teach (students if you are lucky, do scold you CCB occassionally) then do alot of stupid non value adding project groups, be in charge of an ECA (or CCA as they call it now), bring kids for excursions, reach home at 6pm, only to start marking scripts/workbooks/prepare lesson plans till 10pm. During the June/Dec hols, these poor sods are supposed to work as well, doing projects, attend workshops for self improvement etc. Beyond that, teachers are also role models for students, so they have to be morally and ethically upright...can you take all these nonsense for the pay they are getting ?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25583)

all that u said are correct. And the fact that teachers whine....is also correct. haha.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25599)

Hi,
It seems that MX12 to MX10 are suitably covered, but what comes after MX9?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25599)

Hi,
It seems that MX12 to MX10 are suitably covered, but what comes after MX9?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25621)

After MX9 comes MX8 and MX7.

A MX8 is typically a senior director or director in a ministry, helming either an office or (at least) a directorate respectively. His or her salary would be approximately $14K to $17K. Bonus wise, it would be more than what is published in the papers as MX8 is already the 2nd level of superscale. To see things in perspective, i would think it is equivalent to a principal in a MOE school.

A MX7 officer can potentially take on portfolios as high as deputy secretaries. However, having said that, DSes are typically on AO schemes and not MX. But that's just to see how high ranking MX7 is. Salary wise, a good guess would be $20K.

Originally Posted by Fresh grad (Post 25640)

Hi,

Male -25 years old
Just graduated from EEE in NTU with direct honors (2nd lower)
Completed NS

Which job sector or firms should i look for? And what is the salary i should expect?
Cant get into ministry or civil sector i guess.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25623)

Hoping for some honest advice.

Am thinking of switching to civil/public service from current banking operations back office.
Am 33 this year, ntu engineering degree (pass), 5 years banking operations experience
Currently getting 4.2k only

What kind of positions (non-engineering, non-uniform) can I appy for in the civil service/public sector?

Do I stand a chance with pass ntu engineering degree knowing the civil/public places great emphasis with paper qualifications? (If not, i don't want to waste time trying)

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25623)

Hoping for some honest advice.

Am thinking of switching to civil/public service from current banking operations back office.
Am 33 this year, ntu engineering degree (pass), 5 years banking operations experience
Currently getting 4.2k only

What kind of positions (non-engineering, non-uniform) can I appy for in the civil service/public sector?

Do I stand a chance with pass ntu engineering degree knowing the civil/public places great emphasis with paper qualifications? (If not, i don't want to waste time trying)

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25664)

Be prepared to receive a possible 10-15% discount to your existing salary.. Cos you are already considered overpaid for your profile in the civil service... You will no go very far also since you do not have honors... I would stay put in the back office if i were you... No prospects either ways even if you took the pay cut.....

Originally Posted by wern (Post 25667)

No prospect if no hons? There are ppl in this forum here from local U, without hons earning in the MX11 4.4 - 4.5 region after 5 years leh. He would've gotten to that level if he started with civil service from the start since graduation. If you mean no prospects in terms of going to MX9, MX8 and beyond then of course dont need to say la.

Funny thing about CS is that except for places like MAS, they usually don't count your previous work experience and just lump people with 3-4years experience into MX12, which is what fresh grad would get after 1 year.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25676)

QFT,
apply for MOE HQ b4,
previous got 3year plus exp, 2nd lower local U, got offer 3.7k, MX12

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25685)

MOE HQ offering 3.2k, MX 13 for local U fresh grad (2nd uppers) now. Maybe 3k for 2nd lower.
So 700 extra for the 3 years plus of exp?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25685)

MOE HQ offering 3.2k, MX 13 for local U fresh grad (2nd uppers) now. Maybe 3k for 2nd lower.
So 700 extra for the 3 years plus of exp?

Originally Posted by cslee (Post 25666)

May I know what's your motive of moving to government jobs? If for higher pay, you can consider yourself lucky if they match your last drawn. No government agencies would want to be limelights of paying above market rates (remember the town council sagas some yrs back?)

If it's for higher calling and passions like teaching/social service etc, then it's different story - for you'll be rewarded duly in many other aspects.

Based on other banking and finance forum threads, it seems to me that any bankers can easily out-earn any government workers in similar age by 2-3x at least. Maybe can consider movement within same sector?

Originally Posted by lmaohaha (Post 25701)

hi guys, anyone knows will interviews be conducted even b4 the application deadline ends for govt jobs on career portal? and roughly how long will they call u up for interview after u applied/application deadline?

Originally Posted by Fresh grad (Post 25640)

Hi,

Male -25 years old
Just graduated from EEE in NTU with direct honors (2nd lower)
Completed NS

Which job sector or firms should i look for? And what is the salary i should expect?
Cant get into ministry or civil sector i guess.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25703)

highly likely a 1-3 mth wait is possible before they get back to you. depends on where you apply. i applied for MOE and within a month I got the job- in between of 2-3 weeks waiting time for interview, submitting relevant documents, medical checkup, then signing of contract. so it's pretty fast. another friend applied for MCYS, 1 month later they called her for an interview. different ministry/statboard works differently. While i got my job within a mth, she got a call for interview after 1 mth of applying from the portal.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25694)

a) work-life balance.
b) overall remuneration package: Less than 1 month bonus each of the past 4 years. Demoralised and disillusinoned. With the current market sentiment still depressing, the situation isn't going to change soon and operations back office is always the last in line to pick up scraps.
c) operations can be easily replaced by cheaper FTs or moved out to cheaper countries one day.

I am not aiming to be a high-flier. Will be satisifed with a stable job, sufficient remuneration just to survive in sg.

Will I be considered for a civil/public sector administration or finance position with a engineering pass degree?

Originally Posted by lmaohaha (Post 25709)

digress a little, whats the medical checkup about? does it include x ray and blood test?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25705)

Bro im in civil service with exactly the same credentials as u.. 2007 batch major info comm.. The only regret I had was not joining CS sooner.. I went private sector manufacturing 2 years..

In a way, certain scope of work in CS have certain skill sets which are similar to what we learnt.. Give it a try!

Originally Posted by wern (Post 25667)

No prospect if no hons? There are ppl in this forum here from local U, without hons earning in the MX11 4.4 - 4.5 region after 5 years leh. He would've gotten to that level if he started with civil service from the start since graduation. If you mean no prospects in terms of going to MX9, MX8 and beyond then of course dont need to say la.

Funny thing about CS is that except for places like MAS, they usually don't count your previous work experience and just lump people with 3-4years experience into MX12, which is what fresh grad would get after 1 year.

Originally Posted by Perspective (Post 6521)

This is indeed a very interesting thread.

I only worked for 7 months in the civil service, which was my first job upon graduation. Thereafter, I joined a university, doing somethign I really like. My job requires me to remain in close contact with the civil service, though.

My pay took a hit, and admittedly, in general, I am significantly behind my peers who stayed on in the civil service, their first and only job. But, taking a step back, I'm still happy, and my life is still comfortable. Yes, I do get envious hearing the raw salary figures, but you gotta see things from different perspectives.

Also, I've come to realise, you just need a good financial strategy to be OK financially!

Several comments/observations.


- The civil service is Singapore's largest employer. Because it's such a big organisaiton, similar to having many industries under one roof, you can't take the career paths of individuals as the benchmark. In many cases, comparing 2 civil servants will be like comparing apples and oranges. In that sense, this original purpose of this thread, to get a "feel" of civil service pay scales for the sake of comparison is impossible to achieve. This is especially so as many of those who have kindly given precise salary figures did not state their appointment or ministry.

- To the question of whether you're being underpaid, I believe that the civil service pays a fair wage for each job vacancy. What may make you think otherwise is the speicifc work environment. Perhaps you have a lousy boss who rides you too hard? Maybe your boss is making you do more than you're really supposed to do? Or maybe the job is simply a poor job fit for you. In other words, it's more because of people issues that you feel underpaid, not structural ones where the organisation is intentionally underpaying you.

- It is also important to note that you are civil servants, supposedly working for the good for the people of Singapore. There is a certain amount of altriuism to be expected. Just like how we expect politicians to make sacrifices for the larger good, I think it is only fair that we expect civil servants to at least be interested in service to the country, and be motivated not just by salary alone. There must be other forms of satisfaction derived. I know this is grey area, and I agree the general work ethic in Singapore doesn't promote this "selflessness." I also recognise that many will say politicians are paid very well so why should we talk about selflessness etc. But that said, I do believe that many of the politicians would be earning a lot more in the private sector if they went back. Even if they aren't nice or likeable people, people you jsut want to smack and slap, they are indeed incredibly smart and capable. If they had stayed in the industries they were head-hunted by the PAP from, they would certainly be rolling in the dough! Anyway, that's an entirely different discussion.

- What you do (your job) is as important as how much you get paid. If you value the latter over the former, there is a good chance that by your 40s, you'll be incredibly cynical and disillusioned because your salary will never be enough (in your opinion).

- Also, as someone pointed out, the civil service treats its employees in a civil manner. There is a large amount of stability in your job if you do what's expected of you (you don't even need to excel). THe private sector, however, isn't as stable in general. Although you might earn a lot more, there's also a greater risk that you may lose your job, even if you were the hardest worker on the block. THis is something you should factor in. Don't just look at the short-term. Consider the longer term. Some people value this stability, and are willing to earn less for it.

- On this topic, think about work-life balance too. This is especially important when switching between industries, or private and public sectors. There's a cost for everything gained! I believe there's no such thing as a free lunch. If you get fantastic pay, there must be a cost. Also, having lots of money is good, but as the chinese saying goes, "how much rice can you eat?" A lot of us already earn more than the median monthly income of Singaporeans. Maybe it's time to adjust your expectations. It's the classic chasing the 5Cs phenomenon. Find something else that will satisfy you, and help you find the meaning of life (cheesy as it may sound, it is very important!).

- As with all industries, there's an element of luck in determining your salary or promotion. Sometimes, this element of luck can be a lot larger than you might think! After all, you're working in an environment staffed by people, not robots, where judgements and decisions will be unavoidably subjective. Because of this, it is impossible to calculate precisely how well you will do, or how fast you may move up. Many promotions happen because you happen to be at the right place at the right time. Or you happen to possess an urgently needed set of skills. Call it destiny or good karma. There's a certain amount of plotting, scheming and engineering that can be done, but you can never chart your career progression as if it's a science.

- Increasingly, the scholar-farmer divide is narrowing. Especially for those who have just joined the civil service. I know this is very much the case in MINDEF. If you're in your late 30s or 40s, maybe you'll see it less. But for younger civil servants, opportunities abound, even if you're not a scholar! Don't allow people to convince you otherwise. Yes, scholars will be taken care of, but only because the govt has spent so much money on them. That said, many are leaving too! There's also the grudging recognition that a brilliant 18 year old doesn't necessarily make a brilliant 28 year old, or a 38 year old :)

- Finally, and I suppose this is what I think is the most important, is get a financial plan. Either read up and make your own, or employ a reliable financial advisor. At the end of the day, your biggest asset is time, so the sooner you have a disciplined plan, the more your money can grow. And with a good plan, you can still race ahead of your peers even if your pay is below theirs. Also, if you have specific goals, you can try to work towards them. And even if your financial burdens are incredibly heavy, with early planning, you can still have a very comfortable life. Few realise how wonderful time can be as a monetary multiplier! I know of so many people who drew high salaries but blew it away because they didn't have a good financial plan. This is also tied in with work-life balance. If you work in a stressful job, there's a higher chance you'll spend money on unnecessary things which don't add any value to your financial portfolio because you think "you deserve treating yourself." Ironically, it's because you want to expand your financial portfolio that you seek a high paying job!

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25969)

hi guys! i've a qn: is it better to work in ministry or stat board?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25969)

hi guys! i've a qn: is it better to work in ministry or stat board?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25985)

All other things equal,

Ministry > Stat Board

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 25985)

All other things equal,

Ministry > Stat Board

Originally Posted by oldfool (Post 25993)

but stat boards have this flexible benefit thing don't they?
ministry instead has some holiday bungalow thing and how many people use that?