Originally Posted by greenerpastures (Post 191578)

i've been lurking here for a few years now. finally left civil service middle of this year, so i can share some thoughts.

context: scholar, worked 5.5 years after grad, overseas uni w masters

2017 - MX13, 4.0k
2018 - MX12, 4.6k (roughly)
2019 - MX11, 5.4k (roughly)
2020 - MX11A, 6.1k
2021 - MX11A, 6.4k

This doesn't include 13th month or the midyear/endyear bonuses, or the performance bonus. Including these, i think my average annual started around 70 and ended up around 105.

One fact which is not well known is that there is an additional payment for talent schemes like PSLP. Scholars get put on the scheme almost automatically, but non-scholars have a chance of getting in also. Had a few colleagues who got in. The additional payment is rather significant (way more than 10% of your annual package). Admin Service also has a additional payment which is EVEN more significant (although you can only get 33% after the first year, another 33 in second year and the last 33% in the 3rd year, which is a way to retain people). The additional payment also scales up (as a proportion of income) as you rise up the ranks - for top positions, it can be half your pay or more. This is why i laugh when I see people on this forum try to figure out superscale salary and wonder why the numbers reported look so different - without the additional payment the number looks small, with the payment suddenly the numbers jump.


As for everything else...


first of all, civil service is an ENORMOUS place. statements like "good work life balance", "a lot of useless bosses", "nothing to learn", "good career progression", "a lot of retired army people", "first year always get C grade" are all true and also all untrue at the same time. it's a bit like saying "Singaporeans have dogs" or "Singaporeans like Mandopop more than english pop".





some places have amazing WLB, mostly stat board. DOS, IRAS come to mind. some places have shitty WLB. no matter where you are, scholars will have it worse because of additional saigang- er, i mean, "opportunities to shine". I was unfortunate to be in a place with bad WLB, plus COVID, plus scholar. There was a period of ~6 months in 2020 where I was working worse than the feared "996" hours of chinese tech companies (9am-9pm, 6 days a week). Seriously. Circuit Breaker and the restrictions afterwards barely affected me because i had no time to step out of the house or meet people anyway.






Specialist possible. Generalist - very very rare. Generalist leaders tend to be PSLP/AS schemes, which are very very hard to join mid-service (i only know 1 person in the entire civil service below the age of 40 who is a mid-career AS scheme).




Yes. Or if you think you can make it into the talent schemes.




This really depends on the ministry. MX13 (entry level for uni grad) can be Executive, Manager or even Assistant Director.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 191581)

Thanks for sharing. Did you go to private sector and able to share which sector do you prefer?

Originally Posted by greenerpastures (Post 191589)

went to a FAANG.

what do you mean by which sector i prefer? you mean in govt?

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 191591)

Yes. Govt or private. Assume you are doing a similar role.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 191591)

You definitely had a good start if your career given your qualification.

Originally Posted by greenerpastures (Post 191600)

I've only spent half a year in private sector so far, so I can't really answer that very objectively yet. I have no regrets leaving, all my colleagues here are amazing and the amount of raw intellectual power within the company is staggering.

If you are looking for job security, public sector is definitely better. Singapore government will definitely exist in 50 years in some form. I can't say the same for any FAANG company. If the history of big firms like IBM, General Motors etc are anything to go by, the FAANGs will probably still be around but will be less relevant, despite their attempts to reinvent themselves.

For anything else, it really depends on your context - whether you are specialist or generalist, what part of the govt you are joining, etc.




I know I'm above the average Singaporean when it comes to career progression. I've worked hard in my time in the government, so I make no apologies for it.

In 2018, I got an "A" grade despite having been promoted - which is why I know that it's possible to deviate from the default "C" grade the year you get promoted. But I achieved that because I was essentially doing the job of myself and 80% of my Assistant Director combined, and I had supportive bosses who recognised that and were willing to put in extra effort to get me the grade. Sure, I got a fat performance bonus that was ~1+ month more than other people. But that means I got 1 month's pay for doing 0.8x a full-time job for a year.

In 2020, I helped solve problems on a national scale for COVID. The average Singaporean, and in fact a good part of the civil service, will not know some of the behind-the-scenes problems that we as a country faced, and how hard some people worked to make sure things continued as normal (those of you who are in government and know what HCEG is will have an idea of what I mean). And at the end of 2020, we were rewarded with a 0.1 month bonus for solving the greatest crisis the government has faced since communism. Some of us got an additional low-4-figure payout as a reward, but we did the mental math - based on the extra hours we worked, the extra payout was the equivalent of about $2/hour. We could have made more money flipping burgers at MacDonalds, and at McDonalds we would not have to endure the stress of having to meet a senior Minister on a Sunday afternoon, which means meaning the junior Minister on Sunday morning, which means entire Saturday spent arguing things over with Senior Directors and Perm Secs until 3am.

I'm not trying to brag, nor am I asking for people to clap for me. The point I'm trying to make is - work in the civil service is what you make it out to be. There are parts of the civil service where you can be a mindless 9-5 drone working for toxic bosses who should have been fired for incompetence. There are also parts of the civil service where you have amazing bosses and colleagues who are driven to do the best they can. If you want to make it far in the civil service, it requires you to do hard work, beyond what would be considered good return on investment for your time and mental energy. I can say that for the effort I put in, I would have earned more if I joined a management consulting or finance role.

Originally Posted by greenerpastures (Post 191600)

I've only spent half a year in private sector so far, so I can't really answer that very objectively yet. I have no regrets leaving, all my colleagues here are amazing and the amount of raw intellectual power within the company is staggering.

If you are looking for job security, public sector is definitely better. Singapore government will definitely exist in 50 years in some form. I can't say the same for any FAANG company. If the history of big firms like IBM, General Motors etc are anything to go by, the FAANGs will probably still be around but will be less relevant, despite their attempts to reinvent themselves.

For anything else, it really depends on your context - whether you are specialist or generalist, what part of the govt you are joining, etc.




I know I'm above the average Singaporean when it comes to career progression. I've worked hard in my time in the government, so I make no apologies for it.

In 2018, I got an "A" grade despite having been promoted - which is why I know that it's possible to deviate from the default "C" grade the year you get promoted. But I achieved that because I was essentially doing the job of myself and 80% of my Assistant Director combined, and I had supportive bosses who recognised that and were willing to put in extra effort to get me the grade. Sure, I got a fat performance bonus that was ~1+ month more than other people. But that means I got 1 month's pay for doing 0.8x a full-time job for a year.

In 2020, I helped solve problems on a national scale for COVID. The average Singaporean, and in fact a good part of the civil service, will not know some of the behind-the-scenes problems that we as a country faced, and how hard some people worked to make sure things continued as normal (those of you who are in government and know what HCEG is will have an idea of what I mean). And at the end of 2020, we were rewarded with a 0.1 month bonus for solving the greatest crisis the government has faced since communism. Some of us got an additional low-4-figure payout as a reward, but we did the mental math - based on the extra hours we worked, the extra payout was the equivalent of about $2/hour. We could have made more money flipping burgers at MacDonalds, and at McDonalds we would not have to endure the stress of having to meet a senior Minister on a Sunday afternoon, which means meaning the junior Minister on Sunday morning, which means entire Saturday spent arguing things over with Senior Directors and Perm Secs until 3am.

I'm not trying to brag, nor am I asking for people to clap for me. The point I'm trying to make is - work in the civil service is what you make it out to be. There are parts of the civil service where you can be a mindless 9-5 drone working for toxic bosses who should have been fired for incompetence. There are also parts of the civil service where you have amazing bosses and colleagues who are driven to do the best they can. If you want to make it far in the civil service, it requires you to do hard work, beyond what would be considered good return on investment for your time and mental energy. I can say that for the effort I put in, I would have earned more if I joined a management consulting or finance role.

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 191719)

If first year is a "default C grade", then how does mid-career joiner have a chance at PSLP?

Originally Posted by greenerpastures (Post 191600)

I've only spent half a year in private sector so far, so I can't really answer that very objectively yet. I have no regrets leaving, all my colleagues here are amazing and the amount of raw intellectual power within the company is staggering.

If you are looking for job security, public sector is definitely better. Singapore government will definitely exist in 50 years in some form. I can't say the same for any FAANG company. If the history of big firms like IBM, General Motors etc are anything to go by, the FAANGs will probably still be around but will be less relevant, despite their attempts to reinvent themselves.

For anything else, it really depends on your context - whether you are specialist or generalist, what part of the govt you are joining, etc.




I know I'm above the average Singaporean when it comes to career progression. I've worked hard in my time in the government, so I make no apologies for it.

In 2018, I got an "A" grade despite having been promoted - which is why I know that it's possible to deviate from the default "C" grade the year you get promoted. But I achieved that because I was essentially doing the job of myself and 80% of my Assistant Director combined, and I had supportive bosses who recognised that and were willing to put in extra effort to get me the grade. Sure, I got a fat performance bonus that was ~1+ month more than other people. But that means I got 1 month's pay for doing 0.8x a full-time job for a year.

In 2020, I helped solve problems on a national scale for COVID. The average Singaporean, and in fact a good part of the civil service, will not know some of the behind-the-scenes problems that we as a country faced, and how hard some people worked to make sure things continued as normal (those of you who are in government and know what HCEG is will have an idea of what I mean). And at the end of 2020, we were rewarded with a 0.1 month bonus for solving the greatest crisis the government has faced since communism. Some of us got an additional low-4-figure payout as a reward, but we did the mental math - based on the extra hours we worked, the extra payout was the equivalent of about $2/hour. We could have made more money flipping burgers at MacDonalds, and at McDonalds we would not have to endure the stress of having to meet a senior Minister on a Sunday afternoon, which means meaning the junior Minister on Sunday morning, which means entire Saturday spent arguing things over with Senior Directors and Perm Secs until 3am.

I'm not trying to brag, nor am I asking for people to clap for me. The point I'm trying to make is - work in the civil service is what you make it out to be. There are parts of the civil service where you can be a mindless 9-5 drone working for toxic bosses who should have been fired for incompetence. There are also parts of the civil service where you have amazing bosses and colleagues who are driven to do the best they can. If you want to make it far in the civil service, it requires you to do hard work, beyond what would be considered good return on investment for your time and mental energy. I can say that for the effort I put in, I would have earned more if I joined a management consulting or finance role.