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Unregistered 19-07-2021 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174072)
Maybe i can shed some light. Been teaching since 2012, FCH from NIE degree programme.

First posting to an independent school

2012: 4.1k (GEO 2 - the old scheme was 1.1, or 2.1)
2013: 4.6k (GEO 3 - old GEO 1A1 scheme)
2014: 4.8k (GEO 4 - old GEO 1A2)

Changed schools.

2015 - 2017: went to 6.1k iirc

Changed schools again

2018: 6.3k
2019: 6.5k (became SH)
2021: 7.1k (GEO 5)


Key things I've learnt

1. Your relationship with all HODs and SLs are crucial. While you can do good dept work and your HOD can attest to it, join committees chaired by other HODs. More voices to help fight for you and corroborate your contributions (of course dont screw up).

2. The only way to get promoted fast is to be doing work at a higher GEO level. Notice I did not just say "do more work", but do work that is at a higher GEO level. Look at the EPMS form of an SEO (or at least GEO 5), and notice how the impact needs to be more level wide. So,do more impactful work that goes beyond the classroom.

3. Scholars (LMS, Overseas) do get a better head start (in terms of opportunities and perception). But if you screw up, you hentak kaki. I have also seen non-scholars rise. You have to create your own opportunities and take them. I have seen HODs demoted to being a normal teacher, departments complaining to Supt about HODs. Being a HOD does not automatically make you a leader (let alone a good one). Have the right values and lead with a heart.

4. If you choose to just be a Happy, Ordinary Teacher, that is fine. Just be happy and go with the flow. Maxing out at GEO 5 with a 7.8k salary is not bad compared to private sector. Every career has its pros and cons.

5. To BTs, don't just mix with other BTs / young teachers. Your older colleagues have the wisdom of experience to share with you.

looking at the salary range,
GEO4 SH teacher is getting 6.5k - 7k am I right or am I missing something

Unregistered 19-07-2021 06:04 PM

Hi, I have been offered a position in HQ via OPE. However, my school would like to offer an internal KP appointment should I choose to stay. Which would be a better choice?

Unregistered 19-07-2021 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178069)
Hi, I have been offered a position in HQ via OPE. However, my school would like to offer an internal KP appointment should I choose to stay. Which would be a better choice?

If you are GEO4 and above, I will say go HQ. Internal appointment has a lot of work but no monetary compensation. In HQ, you will learn a lot more and get you ready before you return to schools. And if you perform okay in HQ, you will get to apply for enhanced posting where you can be a confirmed KP. There are a lot of work for a KP and it’s never worth while doing something without a recognition. Also, it’s never confirmed that your SLs will send you for KP interview. I know of people who stayed as internal KP for 2-3 years.

Unregistered 19-07-2021 09:47 PM

Offered HQ
 
Hi am offered HQ but currently my released date not confirm. Is it Possible that my P refused to let me go and I have to give up HQ offer?

Unregistered 20-07-2021 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178074)
If you are GEO4 and above, I will say go HQ. Internal appointment has a lot of work but no monetary compensation. In HQ, you will learn a lot more and get you ready before you return to schools. And if you perform okay in HQ, you will get to apply for enhanced posting where you can be a confirmed KP. There are a lot of work for a KP and it’s never worth while doing something without a recognition. Also, it’s never confirmed that your SLs will send you for KP interview. I know of people who stayed as internal KP for 2-3 years.

Am in the same boat as the OP. My P is giving me internal appt for half of next yr and sending me for KP interview thereafter. My P actually spend 45 mins to talk to me immediately aft my RO informed tt I was applying for HQ. In the end, I withdrew from HQ OPE. Anyway, I hope tt I made the right decision.

Unregistered 20-07-2021 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178132)
Am in the same boat as the OP. My P is giving me internal appt for half of next yr and sending me for KP interview thereafter. My P actually spend 45 mins to talk to me immediately aft my RO informed tt I was applying for HQ. In the end, I withdrew from HQ OPE. Anyway, I hope tt I made the right decision.

At least your P made promise that you will be sent for KP interview by the end of this year, not just telling you what you will be given internal appointment till don't know when.

Unregistered 20-07-2021 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178132)
Am in the same boat as the OP. My P is giving me internal appt for half of next yr and sending me for KP interview thereafter. My P actually spend 45 mins to talk to me immediately aft my RO informed tt I was applying for HQ. In the end, I withdrew from HQ OPE. Anyway, I hope tt I made the right decision.

If teaching is your first career, I’ll always advise officers to go HQ first (if opportunity allows). Don’t always be stuck in school. The things you learn in HQ and the people (senior management) you meet will pave a much better road for you in future.

Unregistered 20-07-2021 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178133)
At least your P made promise that you will be sent for KP interview by the end of this year, not just telling you what you will be given internal appointment till don't know when.

But you still have to work half a year without any official SH/LH/HOD offloading. On top of that, you still have your existing portfolio (+ the internal appointment). If you complain too much work, they will say that you are not ready. I’ve seen people in this predicament before.

Unregistered 21-07-2021 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 174824)
Kinda frustrated and wondering if any of you have any advice... Here is my career history:

Male, FCH, PGDE
2013 June - graduated NIE PGDE, GEO2, PB C+
2014 October - Promoted GEO3, PB C+
2015 - GEO3, PB B
2016 - changed school, GEO3, PB B
2017 April - Promoted GEO4, PB B (in year of promotion)
2018 - GEO4, PB B
2019 - Compulsory HQ posting, GEO4, PB B
2020 - GEO4, PB B
2021 - Still GEO4

Kinda frustrated coz my PB has been a B for 6 yrs in a row (2015 to 2020) but I'm still nt promoted to GEO5. I dunno what else I can do to show my worth... Any advice from more senior colleagues? Thx a lot!

looking at this GEO4 as SH salary range is about 6.5-7k already right

Unregistered 22-07-2021 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178154)
looking at this GEO4 as SH salary range is about 6.5-7k already right

Should be around there.

Anyway there are a few obvious explanations for this (before we delve into the less common reasons)..

1. officer is performing above average at his current level but his CEP is not very high, so rate of promotion is still relatively slow. Remember it is not performance grade but CEP which actually determines how often HR flags an officer for promotion. It is usually correlated because CEP will usually be raised for consistent high performers, but it is not a given, i.e. it is possible to give many Bs in a row but not touch an officer's CEP at all.

2. centrally imposed (i.e. by HR) decrease in number of promotions in the high GEO grades because of top-heaviness across the service. This is not officially confirmed in any way by HR, but it is easy to notice if you've been around for most of last decade. Many GEO3s right now are way past overdue (by older standards) for promotion to GEO4 but will be kept waiting for some more time.

mujdey 23-07-2021 07:29 AM

My own opinion is positive about a job as a teacher. It depends what type of teacher you want to be. For example if you want to be a school teacher, then great. But think twice about it, because the hardest part of being a school teacher are children. If you don't find a way to control them, then you are doomed. You can also be a sports teacher. You can create your own clubs of sports, and be the one who helps children find their potential in sport. There are other options like driving teacher, financial teacher and many more. So in conclusion, it is down to you, to choose what type of teacher you want to become.

Unregistered 23-07-2021 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mujdey (Post 178278)
My own opinion is positive about a job as a teacher. It depends what type of teacher you want to be. For example if you want to be a school teacher, then great. But think twice about it, because the hardest part of being a school teacher are children. If you don't find a way to control them, then you are doomed. You can also be a [URL="s://.trinityschoolofmedicine.org/about/whytrinity/accreditation"]sports teacher[/. You can create your own clubs of sports, and be the one who helps children find their potential in sport. There are other options like driving teacher, financial teacher and many more. So in conclusion, it is down to you, to choose what type of teacher you want to become.

If you are a pri school teacher especially, I daresay the parents are the greater challenge. The majority of parents are supportive, understanding and cooperative, but the minority who are the opposite will make your life a living hell.

And a lot of manifestations of issues in children can be traced back to the behaviour and attitudes of their parents.

Unregistered 23-07-2021 12:57 PM

Basically if you are planning to make money, dont join.

I took the wrong move to join PDGE after i left my first job. I was there just for the sake of the salary and could not really find the drive to help students.

Left after bond ended.

Do not join unless you have a heart to help and guide students. You will ruined them.

Unregistered 23-07-2021 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178291)
Basically if you are planning to make money, dont join.

I took the wrong move to join PDGE after i left my first job. I was there just for the sake of the salary and could not really find the drive to help students.

Left after bond ended.

Do not join unless you have a heart to help and guide students. You will ruined them.

Is there work life balance in teaching as a career? During weekends, do teachers have a good rest?

Unregistered 24-07-2021 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178338)
Is there work life balance in teaching as a career? During weekends, do teachers have a good rest?

In general, yes if they choose to.

There are some who are unable to. Generally speaking though, most can if they choose to, for most weekends.

Good is relative. I assume we are talking having time to oneself and not be working.

Unregistered 24-07-2021 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178338)
Is there work life balance in teaching as a career? During weekends, do teachers have a good rest?

It is a choice. I always leave office on time since i dont bother to climb in grade. Officially you can seek permission to teach tuition up to a certain hour from your principal (6hrs a week if i rmb correctly).

Those super passionate one will meet students on wkend in school to help them for extra lesson. For me, i never worked a single weekend before cause i teach tuition the whole day. (Yes i go beyond the allowed 6 hrs granted by my principal)

Unregistered 24-07-2021 02:38 PM

Has anyone gotten an invite from HR to give talk to inspiring undergraduates and graduates to join teaching?
How does HR choose people to give such talks for recruitment?

Unregistered 24-07-2021 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178369)
Has anyone gotten an invite from HR to give talk to inspiring undergraduates and graduates to join teaching?
How does HR choose people to give such talks for recruitment?

I had the opportunity to speak to undergraduates and get them to sign up for the teaching scholarship/award back in 2018. I was in HQ back then. I understood from HR that they will find officers doing relatively well to give such talks. Actually, they will ask your Director/Cluster Sup for recommendations too.

Unregistered 24-07-2021 10:16 PM

IHL lecturer to MOE teacher?
 
Hi all,

I was wondering if any current teachers here were once an IHL lecturer and got "transferred" or converted to as MOE teachers successfully? I am currently an IHL lecturer and was contemplating of becoming a MOE teacher.. I am currently now in my 8 years of service..

Some questions if anyone can enlighten me =))

1) Is DACE considered as a qualified teaching qualification? Do I still need to take up PGDE?

2) Is converting to MOE teacher from IHL's lecturer considered as a transfer and my service years can be retained?

3) If I am successfully got accepted, will the current PB from my IHLs be affected, say i.e, I tendered in Dec 21, serve my 3 months notice, and report to MOE school in Mar 22.

Thank you!

Unregistered 25-07-2021 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178391)
Hi all,

I was wondering if any current teachers here were once an IHL lecturer and got "transferred" or converted to as MOE teachers successfully? I am currently an IHL lecturer and was contemplating of becoming a MOE teacher.. I am currently now in my 8 years of service..

Some questions if anyone can enlighten me =))

1) Is DACE considered as a qualified teaching qualification? Do I still need to take up PGDE?

2) Is converting to MOE teacher from IHL's lecturer considered as a transfer and my service years can be retained?

3) If I am successfully got accepted, will the current PB from my IHLs be affected, say i.e, I tendered in Dec 21, serve my 3 months notice, and report to MOE school in Mar 22.

Thank you!

nope cant work.
you have no general education exp

WorkSoHard 25-07-2021 01:45 AM

Is it true that if a teacher gets a promotion in a school, he needs to serve at least the next two years in the school?

If the teacher indicated interest to post out, would the school hesitate to promote him (if he is due to be promoted)?

Unregistered 25-07-2021 09:53 AM

No such requirement for promotees.

Promotion is largely decided centrally by HR - I doubt school leadership will actively block this, even if they could. However, it is possible that the school might not award this teacher B or C+ (or raise CEP) if leaving… although more enlightened leadership should till be aim to judge him fairly, based on actual contributions and capability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkSoHard (Post 178404)
Is it true that if a teacher gets a promotion in a school, he needs to serve at least the next two years in the school?

If the teacher indicated interest to post out, would the school hesitate to promote him (if he is due to be promoted)?


Munchen 25-07-2021 04:11 PM

Hello everyone.

I am currently an untrained Secondary school teacher. Have been teaching since Jan 2021. I am expected to teach until NIE intake in December. Have already been cleared to proceed but there are several things I would like to ask.

1) For teachers with CS coming in 2 different departments, do they end up teaching more hours? I am asking because i have 4 classes for my CS1 and 2 classes for CS2. And these classes are all at different levels so that would mean 6 different classes to prepare for each week.

2) Are there checks by SLs to ensure some teachers are not overloaded? I notice that the newbies get more classes at least in my school. In the future, if i am assigned too many classes as a trained teacher, what avenues can I use to voice out my concerns about the workload?

3) I did bring this workload up to my mentor but i was told in a rather dismissive manner that "it is a right of passage". Are newbie teachers expected to take on more classes in the beginning? Once you become more experienced, you deserve less classes sort of thing?

Unregistered 25-07-2021 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchen (Post 178448)
Hello everyone.

I am currently an untrained Secondary school teacher. Have been teaching since Jan 2021. I am expected to teach until NIE intake in December. Have already been cleared to proceed but there are several things I would like to ask.

1) For teachers with CS coming in 2 different departments, do they end up teaching more hours? I am asking because i have 4 classes for my CS1 and 2 classes for CS2. And these classes are all at different levels so that would mean 6 different classes to prepare for each week.

2) Are there checks by SLs to ensure some teachers are not overloaded? I notice that the newbies get more classes at least in my school. In the future, if i am assigned too many classes as a trained teacher, what avenues can I use to voice out my concerns about the workload?

3) I did bring this workload up to my mentor but i was told in a rather dismissive manner that "it is a right of passage". Are newbie teachers expected to take on more classes in the beginning? Once you become more experienced, you deserve less classes sort of thing?

Welcome to the real world.
They can bully whoever they can.
U can skip chain of command and write to p, but doubt it will work well for your future
But if u need this job, just have to tolerate it till u finish pgde

Unregistered 25-07-2021 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchen (Post 178448)
Hello everyone.

I am currently an untrained Secondary school teacher. Have been teaching since Jan 2021. I am expected to teach until NIE intake in December. Have already been cleared to proceed but there are several things I would like to ask.

1) For teachers with CS coming in 2 different departments, do they end up teaching more hours? I am asking because i have 4 classes for my CS1 and 2 classes for CS2. And these classes are all at different levels so that would mean 6 different classes to prepare for each week.

2) Are there checks by SLs to ensure some teachers are not overloaded? I notice that the newbies get more classes at least in my school. In the future, if i am assigned too many classes as a trained teacher, what avenues can I use to voice out my concerns about the workload?

3) I did bring this workload up to my mentor but i was told in a rather dismissive manner that "it is a right of passage". Are newbie teachers expected to take on more classes in the beginning? Once you become more experienced, you deserve less classes sort of thing?


Teaching 6 classes is the norm. If you are a BT, your only job is only teaching, thus it’s normal that you have a variety of classes. You are not the coordinator so you often get to follow the SOW. Just need to modify stuff for your classes. The more senior you get, the more roles you will have. Thus, you will end up focusing on either lower Sec or upper Sec. Workload is not just teaching load.

Munchen 25-07-2021 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178449)
Welcome to the real world.
They can bully whoever they can.
U can skip chain of command and write to p, but doubt it will work well for your future
But if u need this job, just have to tolerate it till u finish pgde

I already knew that voicing this out may not end well for me. That is why i have been slogging it out since January.

So do most schools do this to newbies?? :0

Unregistered 25-07-2021 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178385)
I had the opportunity to speak to undergraduates and get them to sign up for the teaching scholarship/award back in 2018. I was in HQ back then. I understood from HR that they will find officers doing relatively well to give such talks. Actually, they will ask your Director/Cluster Sup for recommendations too.

Does that have any relation in terms of paving the way towards e.g. VP-ship?

Unregistered 25-07-2021 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchen (Post 178451)
I already knew that voicing this out may not end well for me. That is why i have been slogging it out since January.

So do most schools do this to newbies?? :0

Usually the more experienced you are, the heavier the workload (no. Of teaching classes, cca, committee duties etc). Newbies are offloaded.

Unregistered 25-07-2021 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 176536)
An official notification will only come to your P if you accept an offer in HRMS.

But it is a basic courtesy to inform your P and RO that you are intending to apply and there is a possibility that you will leave, should you be offered a position elsewhere. Unless you are for some reason completely not on talking terms with your P, you really should give him/her a heads up first.

It's quite rude to the P if he/she finds out first from another P or a Branch Head about your application, but radio silence from you. Or worse, suddenly receive a HRMS notification of your new posting out of the blue.

I just accepted an Open Posting offer but did not inform my P.
I did inform my RO at the beginning of the year and mentioned it again 2 weeks ago during mid year EPMS.

WorkSoHard 26-07-2021 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178464)
Usually the more experienced you are, the heavier the workload (no. Of teaching classes, cca, committee duties etc). Newbies are offloaded.

In my school, KPs have lighter workload, less classes, some are even banded (not full class), and some very senior KPs don’t teach the challenging (in terms of discipline). He openly said that “give me the students with the best results, I don’t want to deal with discipline issues”. He equate good results to good behavior.

Unregistered 26-07-2021 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkSoHard (Post 178483)
In my school, KPs have lighter workload, less classes, some are even banded (not full class), and some very senior KPs don’t teach the challenging (in terms of discipline). He openly said that “give me the students with the best results, I don’t want to deal with discipline issues”. He equate good results to good behavior.

Very true, happening almost in all schools. Then they will say other officers cannot manage their classes.

Unregistered 26-07-2021 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkSoHard (Post 178483)
In my school, KPs have lighter workload, less classes, some are even banded (not full class), and some very senior KPs don’t teach the challenging (in terms of discipline). He openly said that “give me the students with the best results, I don’t want to deal with discipline issues”. He equate good results to good behavior.

Horrible. No wonder our students are not as supported as they should be.

Good and dedicated teachers are rare and may not be adequately appreciated and rewarded.

Unregistered 26-07-2021 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkSoHard (Post 178483)
In my school, KPs have lighter workload, less classes, some are even banded (not full class), and some very senior KPs don’t teach the challenging (in terms of discipline). He openly said that “give me the students with the best results, I don’t want to deal with discipline issues”. He equate good results to good behavior.

KPs have more meetings and need to write more reports and manage a team. They spend time to guide and lead the teachers in the department that’s why need to be offloaded. Not possible to have normal teaching, cca and form teachership load and yet perform KP duties. Simply not manageable.

Unregistered 27-07-2021 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorkSoHard (Post 178483)
In my school, KPs have lighter workload, less classes, some are even banded (not full class), and some very senior KPs don’t teach the challenging (in terms of discipline). He openly said that “give me the students with the best results, I don’t want to deal with discipline issues”. He equate good results to good behavior.

Very few KPs I know actually take the more "difficult" classes. Most of them seem to take classes where the students are older (hence more mature) and are more academically inclined.

To add on, many of the projects proposed and implemented by KPs can be seen being tanked and executed by the normal teachers (while this ironically boosts their portfolios and KPIs when they only "assign work").

Does this happen in other schools too?

Unregistered 27-07-2021 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178547)
KPs have more meetings and need to write more reports and manage a team. They spend time to guide and lead the teachers in the department that’s why need to be offloaded. Not possible to have normal teaching, cca and form teachership load and yet perform KP duties. Simply not manageable.

There are some KPs who are supposed to "guide and lead others" but they actually don't. Work is assigned to the normal teachers without guidance, that's all. I think all teachers are intelligent enough to see this. Yet most teachers are unable to voice out since it places their performance grade at risk by the KPs ranking them.

Unregistered 27-07-2021 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178602)
Very few KPs I know actually take the more "difficult" classes. Most of them seem to take classes where the students are older (hence more mature) and are more academically inclined.

To add on, many of the projects proposed and implemented by KPs can be seen being tanked and executed by the normal teachers (while this ironically boosts their portfolios and KPIs when they only "assign work").

Does this happen in other schools too?

Think it depends very much on school culture. In my school, the tail-end classes are often taught by KP. The P kinda expects it, even - perhaps that's why?

Unregistered 28-07-2021 06:19 PM

Poly
 
Anyone can share what are the job grades of a polytechnic lecturer? I have just been offered a entry level lecturer position at a polytechnic, and just curious how what is it like in the industry.

Would be good if someone can share on the typical workload/working hours too.

Unregistered 28-07-2021 09:57 PM

Anybody knows how to promote to VP-ship, especially for non-scholars? Is it even possible, given the excess situation and what’s the criteria?

Unregistered 29-07-2021 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 178683)
Anybody knows how to promote to VP-ship, especially for non-scholars? Is it even possible, given the excess situation and what’s the criteria?

I've never hit this milestone so a bit of guesswork on my part, but some of my thoughts:

1) Plenty of non-scholars have made it to school leadership

2) You will need to have a high CEP, probably serving as HOD but high-performing and handling cross-department/full-school affairs

3) MOE HR identifies certain of these people for a VP interview. Not everyone clears this.

4) If you're really interested, talk to your RO about this and how you could work towards moving up the leadership track (assuming you're a current HOD) - can couch it as further down the road, if you think it's not likely to be so soon. If you feel too embarrassed to do even that, it might also be a sign about your readiness for this?

Unregistered 29-07-2021 12:00 PM

Poly
 
Anyone can share what are the job grades of a polytechnic lecturer? I have just been offered a entry level lecturer position at a polytechnic, and just curious how what is it like in the industry.

Would be good if someone can share on the typical workload/working hours too.


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