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Unregistered 01-04-2020 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131430)
Promoted to geo4 this april from 3, 200 increment but no change in salary range (still reflects 3). Hope they just haven't updated the increment in salary for promotion.
Anyone received their promotion increment yet?

Unregistered 01-04-2020 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131481)
Nope. Still Teachers. Parents have jobs and then must come back and deal with Teachers who are half-F-ing around. What do you expect?
Yea la, if teachers not doing their job, then nothing to say.

But sometimes parents cannot even control their own children and expect the teachers in school to do their basic parenting job for them. Then go online and kpkb about the fact that teachers are not being good surrogate parents.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131482)
lets update each other here next yr during promotion ya
All the best! Maybe things will change soon. Still got promo exercise in October too.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131481)
Nope. Still Teachers. Parents have jobs and then must come back and deal with Teachers who are half-F-ing around. What do you expect?
This is exactly my point. It's parents job to raise their own kid. Their own parents fark care their useless kid. Want teacher to raise their kids for them meh

Teacher only teach the kids academic stuff cause you parents lack the intellect to do it. Parent to kids rations 2 to 1. You want teachee to raise your kid ratio 1 to 30.


Math fail la parents. I can teach your kids with a few stroke of the cane.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 01:49 PM
One point I thought I'd note - this might have been accurate in the past (when were you in NTU?), recruitment is very competitive now and category #2 is practically non-existent today, IMHO.

Most of the new teachers I see today do at least partially fall into category #1 (many have other practical concerns as well, but I don't see any issue with that), or are at least willing to work hard with young students, so I don't think the situation today is quite as bleak as you make it out to be.

(That said, many do get jaded along the way, as someone had pointed out earlier…)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131466)
Teachers are honestly the whiniest bunch of people around.

Let’s be honest, very few Teachers joined because they have a passion for teaching. When i was in NTU and i met with people in NIE, here are the few types:

1) (5%) - People with real passion for teaching
2) (50%) - People who flopped in JC, and don’t have the money to go to private Uni to get a sub-par degree or to go overseas to study. LL join NIE
3) (25%) - People with **** degrees (i.e. Lit, Comms, or some crap arts degree) who don’t know what to do and suddenly declare that teaching is their passion. You’ve known them for 2-3 years and they never mentioned teaching. So you know it is a last ditch effort.
4) (20%) - People with good degrees (i.e. Engineering, Business etc), but don’t want to join that field, no good companies will hire them at good pay or they tried those careers and it didn’t work out. Basically looking for a steady paycheck.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 02:04 PM
Perspectives
 
I felt a little disturbed seeing some of the messages here. I also beg to differ that only 5% of the teachers are passionate. I’m in a neighbourhood school and most of our pupils are from Low SES family. I reach school at 6:30am and leave at about 5:30pm everyday. I feel very tired sometimes but I always think to myself “it’s for the students, it’s to value-add their learning, etc” when I think about quitting. Sometimes when my P arrows me to do stuffs, I always think about the end in mind about how this will impact/ help the kids, and most time, 90% of the things I do, it does impact them positively. I admit that I thought of quitting to just have a more relaxing life (my husband has been telling me to quit as he can be the sole breadwinner) but I can’t let go because I do find joy in what I do. I remember last year I spent about 8 hours designing and laminating customised bookmarks for my kids for Children’s Day. Just thinking about their smiles makes it all worthwhile. Of course, some just frown upon seeing a bookmark but most appreciates. I just finished a one-hour online live lesson and my students all said they enjoyed the lesson because they could see each other and the discussion was so rich. I spent 3 hours on the lesson planning but seeing their feedback and knowing that they have learnt makes it all worthwhile. A lot of my students have returned to the school to visit and the things their say/ write in the cards is really touching. E.g. I will never forget your teachings, you are the best teacher I ever had, etc. I’m sure you guys have gotten those too. Yes, they may grow up and forget you but some things like values will stay. From my observation and 10 years in school, I dare say we have at least 50% of passionate and dedicated Teachers. The other 50% wants to draw a steady paycheck, waits for retirement or just simply because it’s impossible to go for a career change and draw that kind of salary. Many of them have regrets and of course thought about career change but they know that the outside industry is not as stable as teaching, so they fear quitting in case of regrets. In any case, whether you are a teacher or not, most people in this world is still driven by monetary gains, and humans need that form of recognition all the time. Even if you have done something right and your spouse praises you, you feel good; it’s all normal. Pls do not associate the discussion here on promotions/ increments with our passion. Having that extra money is good because I get to buy stuffs I like, but end of the day, even if we don’t get that promotion or high increments, we still go back and do what we do best with a heart.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 02:06 PM
Perspectives
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131466)
Teachers are honestly the whiniest bunch of people around.

Let’s be honest, very few Teachers joined because they have a passion for teaching. When i was in NTU and i met with people in NIE, here are the few types:

1) (5%) - People with real passion for teaching
2) (50%) - People who flopped in JC, and don’t have the money to go to private Uni to get a sub-par degree or to go overseas to study. LL join NIE
3) (25%) - People with **** degrees (i.e. Lit, Comms, or some crap arts degree) who don’t know what to do and suddenly declare that teaching is their passion. You’ve known them for 2-3 years and they never mentioned teaching. So you know it is a last ditch effort.
4) (20%) - People with good degrees (i.e. Engineering, Business etc), but don’t want to join that field, no good companies will hire them at good pay or they tried those careers and it didn’t work out. Basically looking for a steady paycheck.

(Think about which category you fall in. And no. If you are on this forum posting regularly, you are not in the first category)

Now all these clowns above look at their peers in the private sector and whine about not making more money because they are doing an honourable profession. As long as you have idiots who are willing to join these careers and accept **** pay, the profession is going to pay **** pay. Those from private sectors joining teaching “accepted a pay cut” because that is as high as they will earn in private sector. So they join teaching knowing there will be a steady increment for doing easy work.

Yes! EASY work. People leave companies like Keppel that used to pay 4-6 months bonus to join teaching because the work there was tough and the hours was long. Real long hours. Like 6 days week and daily OT. Leave home at 6am and come home at 8-9pm kind. Teachers whine about working from 6.30am to 6pm? that is what the rest of the population does too. What the rest don’t get is a GUARANTEED period to take leave to go on vacation. If you have kids... WOW! Your vacation time coincides with their school holiday? If your spouse is a teacher, even better! Whole family suka suka go vacation together. I have cancelled multiple vacations cos my company last minute needed me to be around.

People leave other private sector jobs because they did tough jobs out in the real world and compete with people who are HUNGRY! I have colleagues who joined teaching. They are the laziest bunch of paper pushers around. None of them had a “passion”. Let’s be real. In the schools, people whine about some people getting promoted fast. Well you know that these are real people who work real hard. Guess what? In the real world the majority of people are like this. This is what we compete with daily. Remember the saying: “Those who can, DO. Those who can’t, teach.”

I always thought the lazy people who i met in NTU from NIE will grow up and grow to become good Teachers. But honestly, that was a mistake. After a hard day’s work, i look at Instagram and all i see are Teachers whining about their Low pay and their heavy workload. If you have time to post on social media so much, maybe you’re not that busy.

So forgive me for thinking 99% of the Teachers i meet are the laziest, least motivated and lacking in vision kind of people on the planet.


I felt a little disturbed seeing some of the messages here. I also beg to differ that only 5% of the teachers are passionate. I’m in a neighbourhood school and most of our pupils are from Low SES family. I reach school at 6:30am and leave at about 5:30pm everyday. I feel very tired sometimes but I always think to myself “it’s for the students, it’s to value-add their learning, etc” when I think about quitting. Sometimes when my P arrows me to do stuffs, I always think about the end in mind about how this will impact/ help the kids, and most time, 90% of the things I do, it does impact them positively. I admit that I thought of quitting to just have a more relaxing life (my husband has been telling me to quit as he can be the sole breadwinner) but I can’t let go because I do find joy in what I do. I remember last year I spent about 8 hours designing and laminating customised bookmarks for my kids for Children’s Day. Just thinking about their smiles makes it all worthwhile. Of course, some just frown upon seeing a bookmark but most appreciates. I just finished a one-hour online live lesson and my students all said they enjoyed the lesson because they could see each other and the discussion was so rich. I spent 3 hours on the lesson planning but seeing their feedback and knowing that they have learnt makes it all worthwhile. A lot of my students have returned to the school to visit and the things their say/ write in the cards is really touching. E.g. I will never forget your teachings, you are the best teacher I ever had, etc. I’m sure you guys have gotten those too. Yes, they may grow up and forget you but some things like values will stay. From my observation and 10 years in school, I dare say we have at least 50% of passionate and dedicated Teachers. The other 50% wants to draw a steady paycheck, waits for retirement or just simply because it’s impossible to go for a career change and draw that kind of salary. Many of them have regrets and of course thought about career change but they know that the outside industry is not as stable as teaching, so they fear quitting in case of regrets. In any case, whether you are a teacher or not, most people in this world is still driven by monetary gains, and humans need that form of recognition all the time. Even if you have done something right and your spouse praises you, you feel good; it’s all normal. Pls do not associate the discussion here on promotions/ increments with our passion. Having that extra money is good because I get to buy stuffs I like, but end of the day, even if we don’t get that promotion or high increments, we still go back and do what we do best with a heart.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131492)
All the best! Maybe things will change soon. Still got promo exercise in October too.
all the best to u too! i think the promotion exercise in october alrdy out also tog w april

Unregistered 01-04-2020 02:45 PM
Teachers like to complain they have too much admin work to do. Every job has admin work! Most professional jobs require you to file claims, do HR stuff etc. You also have to take on side projects etc. Even in large companies with many departments, some tasks won’t fall anywhere specific so somebody will have to pick it up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131466)
Teachers are honestly the whiniest bunch of people around.

Let’s be honest, very few Teachers joined because they have a passion for teaching. When i was in NTU and i met with people in NIE, here are the few types:

1) (5%) - People with real passion for teaching
2) (50%) - People who flopped in JC, and don’t have the money to go to private Uni to get a sub-par degree or to go overseas to study. LL join NIE
3) (25%) - People with **** degrees (i.e. Lit, Comms, or some crap arts degree) who don’t know what to do and suddenly declare that teaching is their passion. You’ve known them for 2-3 years and they never mentioned teaching. So you know it is a last ditch effort.
4) (20%) - People with good degrees (i.e. Engineering, Business etc), but don’t want to join that field, no good companies will hire them at good pay or they tried those careers and it didn’t work out. Basically looking for a steady paycheck.

(Think about which category you fall in. And no. If you are on this forum posting regularly, you are not in the first category)

Now all these clowns above look at their peers in the private sector and whine about not making more money because they are doing an honourable profession. As long as you have idiots who are willing to join these careers and accept **** pay, the profession is going to pay **** pay. Those from private sectors joining teaching “accepted a pay cut” because that is as high as they will earn in private sector. So they join teaching knowing there will be a steady increment for doing easy work.

Yes! EASY work. People leave companies like Keppel that used to pay 4-6 months bonus to join teaching because the work there was tough and the hours was long. Real long hours. Like 6 days week and daily OT. Leave home at 6am and come home at 8-9pm kind. Teachers whine about working from 6.30am to 6pm? that is what the rest of the population does too. What the rest don’t get is a GUARANTEED period to take leave to go on vacation. If you have kids... WOW! Your vacation time coincides with their school holiday? If your spouse is a teacher, even better! Whole family suka suka go vacation together. I have cancelled multiple vacations cos my company last minute needed me to be around.

People leave other private sector jobs because they did tough jobs out in the real world and compete with people who are HUNGRY! I have colleagues who joined teaching. They are the laziest bunch of paper pushers around. None of them had a “passion”. Let’s be real. In the schools, people whine about some people getting promoted fast. Well you know that these are real people who work real hard. Guess what? In the real world the majority of people are like this. This is what we compete with daily. Remember the saying: “Those who can, DO. Those who can’t, teach.”

I always thought the lazy people who i met in NTU from NIE will grow up and grow to become good Teachers. But honestly, that was a mistake. After a hard day’s work, i look at Instagram and all i see are Teachers whining about their Low pay and their heavy workload. If you have time to post on social media so much, maybe you’re not that busy.

So forgive me for thinking 99% of the Teachers i meet are the laziest, least motivated and lacking in vision kind of people on the planet.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131400)
Can people help to update ur merit increments so we can fill in the gaps? :) looks like a slight decrease in merit increments compared to the past based on list below

Geo2
C-:
C:
C+:$60 (prorated)
B:
A:

Geo3
C-:
C: 175
C+: $175- $176
B: $210-$211
A:

Geo4
C-:
C: $192
C+: $192
B: $245-$260
A: $325

Geo5
C-:
C:
C+: $184-$216
B: $236
A:

Seo1
C-:
C: $305
C+:
B:
A: 498

Seo2
C-:
C:
C+:
B:
A:

Seo3
C-:
C:
C+:
B:
A
Updated the list

Unregistered 01-04-2020 03:47 PM
Can people help to update ur merit increments so we can fill in the gaps? looks like a slight decrease in merit increments compared to the past based on list below

Geo2
C-:
C:
C+:$60 (prorated)
B:
A:

Geo3
C-:
C: 175
C+: $175- $176
B: $210-$211
A:

Geo4
C-:
C: $192
C+: $192
B: $245-$260
A: $325

Geo5
C-:
C:
C+: $184-$216
B: $236-$246
A:

Seo1
C-:
C: $305
C+:
B:
A: 498

Seo2
C-:
C:
C+:
B:
A:

Seo3
C-:
C:
C+:
B:
A

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:14 PM
Anyone know how competitive it is to enter NIE-NTU? my igp isn't good but i have a passion for teaching....like mentoring people, bringing out the best in them. I have done it quite a few times as a volunteer tutoring kids...argh i am reading that 80rp people got interview, but i haven't got any offers yet. I really want to be a teacher.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131509)
Anyone know how competitive it is to enter NIE-NTU? my igp isn't good but i have a passion for teaching....like mentoring people, bringing out the best in them. I have done it quite a few times as a volunteer tutoring kids...argh i am reading that 80rp people got interview, but i haven't got any offers yet. I really want to be a teacher.
These days it is very competitive due to massive drop in vacancies ever since school mergers few years ago. Most new teachers these days have good results, leadership in cca and various internship experiences. Those accepted these days usually have excellent portfolios. 5-10 years back it ain't so competitive.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:42 PM
I really hope nie give me a chance at interview haha, their bsa/bsc essay never really asked candidates to explain why they wanna be a teacher.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131512)
These days it is very competitive due to massive drop in vacancies ever since school mergers few years ago. Most new teachers these days have good results, leadership in cca and various internship experiences. Those accepted these days usually have excellent portfolios. 5-10 years back it ain't so competitive.

Oh well there goes my teaching career. Are u from MOE HQ? i am losing hope here

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131515)
Oh well there goes my teaching career. Are u from MOE HQ? i am losing hope here
No I am not. I also wanted to teach but was rejected many times. I have done tutoring too, but these days it doesn't stand out anymore. They have different expectations (and much higher) today when recruiting

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131517)
No I am not. I also wanted to teach but was rejected many times. I have done tutoring too, but these days it doesn't stand out anymore. They have different expectations (and much higher) today when recruiting
You applied for NTU-NIE or PGDE? I am considering PGDE becos my current grades aren't fantastic.

Anyways a bit sianz max, seeing the teachers i met in school some have temper issues and some simply dont give a **** about teaching sia. We're born in the wrong times to become a teacher.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131521)
You applied for NTU-NIE or PGDE? I am considering PGDE becos my current grades aren't fantastic.

Anyways a bit sianz max, seeing the teachers i met in school some have temper issues and some simply dont give a **** about teaching sia. We're born in the wrong times to become a teacher.
I applied for PGDE. Both are equally competitive. In fact several of my friends with good honours couldn't get in too. Hence can see their expectations is really high today

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131517)
No I am not. I also wanted to teach but was rejected many times. I have done tutoring too, but these days it doesn't stand out anymore. They have different expectations (and much higher) today when recruiting
Any other career path ur considering?

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131524)
I applied for PGDE. Both are equally competitive. In fact several of my friends with good honours couldn't get in too. Hence can see their expectations is really high today
I wonder what they are looking for haha. :(

Unregistered 01-04-2020 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131525)
Any other career path ur considering?
I just look around and apply for other jobs I may be qualified for, because job market is quite bad this year

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131526)
I wonder what they are looking for haha. :(
I feel passion alone today isnt sufficient, many candidates will probably have it

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131524)
I applied for PGDE. Both are equally competitive. In fact several of my friends with good honours couldn't get in too. Hence can see their expectations is really high today
Which subjects were you planning to teach?

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131529)
I feel passion alone today isnt sufficient, many candidates will probably have it
Some part of thinks I should become a researcher instead... After i get that part to nurture students. Then again not an affordable path for me because i need to get a phd overseas cos #academicinbreeding

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131533)
Which subjects were you planning to teach?
sec math

Was told that sec level subjects esp math and sci are the most competitive

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131527)
I just look around and apply for other jobs I may be qualified for, because job market is quite bad this year
Not just quite bad. Its very very very very bad. Might as well apply to be a sbs or smrt bus driver earning 2k+ until the recession is over

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:16 PM
Professor not an easy title to climb up to...

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131536)
Not just quite bad. Its very very very very bad. Might as well apply to be a sbs or smrt bus driver earning 2k+ until the recession is over
Yes I applied for 150+ jobs, no offer yet

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:17 PM
I applied to teach secondary school literature... Competitive???

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131539)
I applied to teach secondary school literature... Competitive???
Had a chat with someone who managed to get in, say he saw most ppl in his batch are sec humanities, languages or pri. Very little sec math and sci. So probably more vacancies for you

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:22 PM
There's a lack of humanities teacher leh i think...

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131540)
Had a chat with someone who managed to get in, say he saw most ppl in his batch are sec humanities, languages or pri. Very little sec math and sci. So probably more vacancies for you
Hopefully!

Unregistered 01-04-2020 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131535)
sec math

Was told that sec level subjects esp math and sci are the most competitive
s://.tablebuilder.singstat.gov.sg/publicfacing/createDataTable.action?refId=13273

From birth stats, sg never recovered from the higher births of > 45 000+ babies per year prior to 2000 which is why some sec schs have merged or closed. The next time there might be a better demand for sec sch teachers is probably in 5 years time. These kids are now in pri sch so you should consider that if you are up for it, because not everybody are comfy with handling pri sch kids.

And unfortunately with covid, times are even worse with tonnes of retrenchments. As you pointed out, math and sci are very competitive, now worsened by thousands of pmet engineers, financial sector workers etc out of work and will consider teaching math / sci as an interim job until the economy recovers. For better or worse, moe seems to like these mid-career people even though they may not have the skills to teach or are obviously in the job just to tide themselves over.

Its also true that moe cherry picks these in this employer's market. Most of the new teachers (fresh grads) are alumni of top sec schs eg raffles, acs. If you were from some ah beng sec sch, your resume would not even be downloaded by hr despite graduating from a local uni. No need to mention the chances for those pte degree / suss

If your circumstances are affected by the 3 things above, i would suggest forget teaching and beg for any other job which can build up your skills and experience even if it pays you peanuts, and work your way up.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131541)
There's a lack of humanities teacher leh i think...
Think carefully before signing on as humanities teacher. Especially if one of your subjects is social studies. Students generally hate humanities and most of them take it because they are forced to by moe and they need it to get into jc or some of the poly courses. Ask any student and they will tell you that they especially dislike social studies or at least the way it is assessed. Don't join for the money because life will be hell for you if you are posted to the wrong school, get the wrong boss or the wrong type of students. Liquidated damages is no joke and 3 / 4 years bond is no joke either.

Unregistered 01-04-2020 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131545)
s://.tablebuilder.singstat.gov.sg/publicfacing/createDataTable.action?refId=13273

From birth stats, sg never recovered from the higher births of > 45 000+ babies per year prior to 2000 which is why some sec schs have merged or closed. The next time there might be a better demand for sec sch teachers is probably in 5 years time. These kids are now in pri sch so you should consider that if you are up for it, because not everybody are comfy with handling pri sch kids.

And unfortunately with covid, times are even worse with tonnes of retrenchments. As you pointed out, math and sci are very competitive, now worsened by thousands of pmet engineers, financial sector workers etc out of work and will consider teaching math / sci as an interim job until the economy recovers. For better or worse, moe seems to like these mid-career people even though they may not have the skills to teach or are obviously in the job just to tide themselves over.

Its also true that moe cherry picks these in this employer's market. Most of the new teachers (fresh grads) are alumni of top sec schs eg raffles, acs. If you were from some ah beng sec sch, your resume would not even be downloaded by hr despite graduating from a local uni. No need to mention the chances for those pte degree / suss

If your circumstances are affected by the 3 things above, i would suggest forget teaching and beg for any other job which can build up your skills and experience even if it pays you peanuts, and work your way up.
Yes, I do know of a few people who went to teach as a backup plan

Unregistered 01-04-2020 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131547)
Think carefully before signing on as humanities teacher. Especially if one of your subjects is social studies. Students generally hate humanities and most of them take it because they are forced to by moe and they need it to get into jc or some of the poly courses. Ask any student and they will tell you that they especially dislike social studies or at least the way it is assessed. Don't join for the money because life will be hell for you if you are posted to the wrong school, get the wrong boss or the wrong type of students. Liquidated damages is no joke and 3 / 4 years bond is no joke either.
Why would life be hell? Isn't teaching about inspiring passion in your students?

Unregistered 01-04-2020 06:36 PM
My increment this year is a paltry $83... GEO3

Unregistered 01-04-2020 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131550)
Why would life be hell? Isn't teaching about inspiring passion in your students?
The bond can be broken not just by yourself wanting to quit. If you fail practicum, need to pay back too

really depends on the school you posted to and what class you teaching

Unregistered 01-04-2020 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131551)
My increment this year is a paltry $83... GEO3
mine is only 50 and i got a B

Unregistered 01-04-2020 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 131554)
The bond can be broken not just by yourself wanting to quit. If you fail practicum, need to pay back too

really depends on the school you posted to and what class you teaching
Fail practicum???


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