10K to 15K is M4(senior manager) to M5(VP), Jia You! I have seen high flyers doing it before, but also seen M2 stuck there for many years due to project screw up or offend someone up there.

How is the working culture in ST Engineering Land Systems?

Zhun boh. M2 8k++?

If no wage freeze. This year I'll be 9k liao lo. Damn covid

Curious, so who actually makes the hiring decisions for engineers is it the M3/M4 or director level? Also what is the basic for NTU FCH 2020 with no NS and what is the typical bonus size? Thanks.

for 2019, would say is about 4k - 4.2 basic range for ICT role, no AWS, PB average about 1-1.4 months. no stock options, you would be better off finding elsewhere.

Basic relatively accurate for Second (Lower) and below.
PB average for newcomer on average is prorated 1.5mths
(due to no ranking and appraisal)
After 1st year, with ranking and appraisal expect around 2 mths bonus (avg grade) depending on your grading for normal year. (can be up to 4+mths if you are really good)
But due to covid, most probably next year bonus will be quite bad...

Yes 2018 is 3.6k but with 1 AWS.
So 2019 is 4.2k with no AWS.

The starting pay is exactly the same..
PB is difference depending on ur company.
Some company have the practise of PB is 1+xxx
Some company is PB xxx

So your base salary will be adjusted according to how they give out the bonus.
So the same fresh grad with same result same uni...
1 go to company A get 4.2k with 1+xx bonus
the other go to the company B get 4550 with xxx bonus (usually 0.4 to 0.5)

Heard that FCH (Local U) gets 5.1~5.3k depending if your degree is computer science or not. Can anyonr confirm?

Wah fresh grad 5.1k? So much.
During covid-19 some more. Fresh grad this year are so delusional

No, DSTA only paid 4.5 - 4.9k for local Uni Computer science fresh grad last year, ST pays more like 4k - 4.2k without AWS for Local U. FCH wouldn't apply for ST. ST may not take them as they may leave quickly.

Bosses will reject FCH application just for fun and rather take in their own gang of 3rd class honors or 2nd lower...

To them, it's easier to command an average person than to lead a highly motivated intellectual person.

So to avoid that, they will ask u come interview... yes... but reject you just for fun. I been there. My friend 2nd lower got in. I didn't. But thankfully, now I'm thriving in GovTech.

Thank god I didn't make the mistake of joining ST.

a typical IT engineer from fresh grad 1st class with 5 years exp at GovTech will get how much basic salary. Assume average C performance for all these 5 years.

Just do a comparison

Join ST if you want an
- work life balance
- hardly any overtime
- projects takes years to materialize
- most of the time engineers just slack come late office
- breakfast until 930 am
- then 2 hours later blank stare..
- 1130 am then lunch liao
- go 2 hours lunch come back 130pm
- maybe have 1 meeting per week.
- sit in push here push there
- tea break
- tomorrow prepare for the next week meeting.

But expect
Average pay
Average progression
Lots of politics
No chance to promote cause all those occupying the spaces are like 20 years with ST
See fresh grad high pay 4.2k join in.
They can't do anything.
Boss ask you to guide them.
You also can't guide them cause you yourself also dun have the skill
So you push the responsibility to fresh grad.
Fresh grad fed up finally leave 1 or 2 years.
Rinse and repeat until someone else eventually quit.

This. Was from marine. But culture should be similar. Depends on dept, have to expect heavier workload and overtime. Will meet afew deadweights in the organisation dragging the whole project but you cannot do anything much to move forward.

SAF combo with DSTA will just feed on you for all the work for certain projects. And they get paid higher than you. Many fresh grads that entered within afew months want to go already, those with bonds will likely leave when time is up.

Unless you are the top tier scholar, then make sense to develop a career. If not, please join SAF or DSTA instead. Don't be the bottom of the foodchain.

For this... 2019 batch i heard of 1 FCH that is getting this pay range.
*Disclaimer* I didn't verify with the person myself just heard from one of his fren.

Anyways, for those FCH that are really capable, i would suggest you all joining somewhere else with greater prospect. Govt related firm offers aren't as attractive compared to private companies outside that specialize in specific IT domains.

Actually it's more like 5k~ for CS/EEE with NS, FCH of course, bonus package bigger than ST as well. Source : Seniors who got into DSTA. Personally given the feedback from both seniors and in this forum I will look into joining HTX/DSTA instead.

Maybe DSTA also don't want you. Haha

Nah not 5.1k in ST. They pay 4.3 for fch in comp sci. Waste of time.

5k fch is DSTA / DSO / GovTech PRE-COVID (had offers). But not sure about situation now. Highly unlikely to change as market rate for comp sci still not changing (yet) as most established tech companies still offering same as pre-covid.

But then if you're good enough to join GovTech you should try for private sectors. They easily pay 20-30% more even as fresh grad if you pass their interviews.

Have received verbal offer awaiting G50 clearance, for dsta.

Then you still come into ST forum and bait for information ...
DSTA ppl is one kind one.

Around 5500

Quite true. ST hard to promote. With the selfish managers who scared of their rice bowls being stolen by the young performers, they give them poor or average appraisals to suppress their growth in the company. Some managers claims the credits of the engineers so that the bosses does not recognize the junior engineers strength.

When things goes wrong, these selfish managers will push the blames to the juniors and just sits down for the engineers to solve the problem for them.

Yep. Joined ST recently, kinda regret. Feels like a lot of the managers are those who can't do technical / engineering so become manager cause of their long time service. Ask them so technical question, not to challenge them, but need to know if not how to design the system...

They don't know then just push back to you.
They are like the uni professor for final year project.
Just assign you a project. You do.. Deliver.
They themselves dunno what approach. How to go about.
But once you finish delivering the system...
They take all the credit.. Get promoted advance higher and higher.

Tjafs why alor of managers. M2 TO M4 just come office play politics.
Why? Cause they don't have the skills... The only way they get promoted is assign work to lowly engineers. Then outlast them..

That's all they know.
That's how they get promoted.
So why would they change.
My colleague like to joke.. ST Engineering should be renamed to ST Consulting.
Those perm staff all just consultant. The engineers that need the skillet are outsource...

Too low for 5 years exp.

Some "engineers" joined the company as managers just because their last drawn pay and expected salary are higher than what is drawn by the Executive Engineers. Then they have no experience to lead and the appropriate technical knowledge. The only way they cover themselves and cheat their way through promotion is continue to leech from the Engineers and steal the credit to continue promote.

With their position, they will try to prevent capable engineers under them to excel and bring down their appraisals so as to keep their position secured. No engineers will excel with these people around and create more unjustified mindset.

fresh grad 3.8 leh, based on the current increment, after 5 yrs also around 5.5

Any one work in aerospace? Is it better?

You need to look at market rate when assessing your choices.

Only Testers have work life balance.

Last time, when I was a developer, the qa tester have to STAY and test until I send in the code even it is 3-4am.

But when they are waiting, they are playing game or surfing net LA, ez job

I dun mind no prospect, and no salary increment

what I need is work life balance and less stress

dun ask me come back on weekend

can or nt. Just take the same salary for the next 30 years

f u c k i ng singapore loser
 

why f u c k i ng idiot singaporean keep losing their job to foreigner like me hahahaha , stupid f u c k i ng singaporean , loser in life and sex life. i gonna f u c k all singapore girl once i'm there

mod pls bend this guy

Please la. ST where got hire a software tester just to test code.
My side. 1 programmer do all the design, documentation, coding, testing. Ux design, etc.
And not just 1 project. Multiple projects..

You still have a software tester to help test your work...
Then you anyhow code also can what. Just say the tester never test your code.
In today's world. Or gaming world...
That role of testing is pushed to users. In beta etc.

Or in the open source world is done by the developer... Where got 1 developer implement the gesture then another software tester test the work one.

got ar... my side is LSG... we got QA tester ... developer and even a person who is just in charge of the SVN and the compiling of code....

the tester job is to test the developer code and mark it as passed in jira... then they are supposed to come out with test cases for the end user UAT......

their job really is the relax one....

somemore, same pay as a developer......

Sorry. Jurong East here. We don't have dedicated software tester. Not enough developer. Leaving every few years. Source code quality abut messy. Gone thru so many developers.

Some developer good can implement they test their own work etc. Get everything working.
Some developer not good alot of bug and problem. User complain. Then they quit.
Leave a mess.

Your side got a dedicated software tester... Maybe must setup one for our side too.

Got a lot of developer doing lots of paper work. Not enough developer doing actual development work. Software developer complain their pay not high enough. So just want to do paper work.

Want high pay like Facebook Google developer kind but just want to do paper work development. A lot of this kind of developer.

Maybe next time you start coding at 8 am instead of coming into office late cause the day before work until 3 am. Then go long lunch.
You pass the code to me at 3 to 4 am then what am I supposed to do during office hours.
So I personal time in office cause 3 to 4 am is my personal time and if I need to work during personal time. Then there is abosultely nothing wrong with personal time during office hours.

If 1 programmer do everything... that means ur project too small scale. On my side, only medium scale projects with cater for dedicated testers to help and those projects are likely to specific tests due to contractual reqyirements.