You screw up to 3rd class? oh,,,..

I have to say it sounds like the blind leading the blind in this thread with rubbish advice, inflated salaries and nonsensical discussions.

1. For fresh grads - High starting pay should not at all be one of your considerations. Why? - Because the annual increments and bonus in the civil service are not great. The high starting pay is because your skills are NON-TRANSFERABLE (ie. stuck) and you RETIRE EARLY. Also, many people find the work super boring. At some point, you'll find yourself out of conversation with your friends in Shenton Way.

2. It is useless to talk in terms of job titles. If you want to know roughly how much is the market, and how much a person is earning or you should be earning, take the starting pay, add $200 annual increment for each yr. You can expect a promotion once every three years - four years: add $1000 for each promotion.

Eg. Starting pay: $2500 + 2 promotions + 8 years experience annual increment
$2500 + $2000 + ($200x8) = $6100

Please remember that people often go a long long time without promotion (there can only be so many Directors) and $200 annual increment per year is on the generous side, unless you work in a bank. Conversely, there are people who get promoted three times in eight years, and these people can draw between $7000-$8000 but they are rare.

So if you look at these figures, you can understand what I mean by nonsensical discussion. If someone tells you he is drawing more than $5000 after working four or five years, he is likely to be talking rubbish, unless he managed to get promoted twice in four or five years. Please lah, give me a break.

3. The above is a rough guide. You also need to ask yourself "What kind of experience?" If you spend the last ten years in People's Association, MOM or LTA, you think this experience is valuable? Would you rather hire a person who spent 15 years in People's Association as a Manager or someone who spent the last five years in Merill Lynch? What kind of projects did you managed? Local, regional or global (all civil service experience is only local, unless you're with MFA)? What are the budgets that you managed - $50,000 or $5 mil? What sort of projects did you undertake?

FYI, I hire fresh grads. All are from reputable unis with 2nd upper and above. you don't have this, you don't even need to apply. RMIT, Curtin, this kind of junk can quickly remove from the pile of applications. How much are the fresh grads paid in my company? $2500-$2700, not $3000. This is a very fair deal considering you have ZERO experience, and that many graduates are taking $2100-$2500 salaries in small companies that pay poor, if any bonus.

This loser talks like he's the owner of some big company or he got a top notch degree himself.. I bet this loser does not have any solid working experience in a big company.. Just a load of hogwash he typed here LOL

I don't agree with you. I think what he wrote makes a lot of sense. He knows his stuff. You don't.

I think the only way to verify if everyone speaking the truth is only to attach their pay slip... lol

If you shut up, people will not know you are stupid.

1. I do work in a big company. If you worked in a big company, you would know this is the case. You have just revealed that you don't work in a big company.

2. I do not need to be the owner of a company to hire people. Again, you reveal how stupid you are.

3. It is an open secret that good companies only hire graduates with second upper honours from a good university. NUS is ranked about 40 in the world, as a rough guide, people hire universities ranked around there. Who wants to hire dumbdumbs from universities ranked 200 or 400? Foreigners are the exception. Please read more newspaper advertisements. In what way did I suggest I have a top notch degree from a good university? But do I have honours from a good university? Yes I do, as do ALL MY COLLEAGUES. You are childish beyond belief.

4. You know nuts about the market and clearly do not understand the impact of foreign talent because you don't work for anybody, do you? A graduate from Philippines with four years experience, who speaks and writes perfect English will be more than happy with $2500 per month. If you knew this, you wouldn't be sprouting nonsense here.

Anyway, I'm not here to play oneupmanship with people like you who have not even stepped into the workforce, much less work for a big company.

I'm simply providing information because I was once (a fairly long time ago) a jobseeker myself. If you don't want my advice so be it.

I don't have anything to prove to someone who has egg on his face.

3rd class honours is till better than those who with "pass with merit" although having "merit" sounds better than being "3rd class". The ironies of life.

Perhaps the universities should just call the "pass with merit" a fourth class honours and those with "pass" degrees a fifth class honours.

Those from universities ranked outside world 100 should have their honours degrees demoted by one rung.

Please ignore that fellow. He's the minority with a loud voice. I believe there's a silent majority here who really appreciate your good real-world insights and advice. Please continue to help the rest of us here.

Management/Admin/Business ( Health Care )
 

Anyone working in the non-medical side?

Singhealth
National Health Group
SGH,TTSH etc

What's the pay like there? Easy to get in?
Pay structure goes the same as civil service? I understand that Singhealth and NHG are like under MOH but they follow private pay/bonus structure. Thanks

2. It is useless to talk in terms of job titles. If you want to know roughly how much is the market, and how much a person is earning or you should be earning, take the starting pay, add $200 annual increment for each yr. You can expect a promotion once every three years - four years: add $1000 for each promotion.

Eg. Starting pay: $2500 + 2 promotions + 8 years experience annual increment
$2500 + $2000 + ($200x8) = $6100

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my GLC company(with 4 main subsidiaries), There is no such thing as add $1000 for each promotion, not even $200.

As for my case if I continue to work in my current company for 8 years, base on your formula, this is what I will get.

annual increment for A grader approx 6% only (B will get lesser by 1%, C ...accordingly)
promotional increment for A grader approx 8% only (B will get lesser by 2%, C ...accordingly)

Assuming I am a very 'outstanding' performer aka 'A' grader with my company, please refer to below:
Starting pay: $2800 + 2 promotions + 8 years experience annual increment = $2800 + 1.08^2 + 1.06^8 = approx $5.2K only

This wat you get here as a A performer here consecutively for 8 years....(very hard to achieve that).

Well most people are average performer 'C' which includes me, will get no more than $4.2k with 2 promotion & 8 annual increments after 8 years of services in my company. How pathetic is this here!!!

WDA and Bobo
 

Dear Bobo,

Good that you set the record straight, most of the proclaimations were quite hard to believe until your comment.

The truth sometimes hurts :(

In any case, does anyone know for a 10 yr working experience person with relevant experience, is WDA's Senior Manager position suitable? Or should be going for Asst Dir?

If any advice on pay range, that will be most helpful.

Oh dear. I've not heard of such a system before. Promotion = More money. No money is not considered a promotion. Take on more responsibility but no money?! Hahaha...I think most people will tell their boss/HR to go fly kite! I hope your company pays good bonus!

Having said that, if you draw about $5000 (say 15 mths package) for 8 yrs experience, it's not too bad. Things could be much worse but of course we hope it to be better.

Bobo

You make a lot of sense with what you have written. In fact, I am from a reputable uni with 2nd upper and above. I worked for 14 years and have worked for both govenment and MNCs. You are right that in government, the starting is good but after sometime, those in MNCs will catch because of their transferable knowledge and experience.

I left government 6 years ago to join MNC and last I check, my ex boss is still where she is. My pay has doubled over the 6 years, with 2 promotions in between that gave me 25% increase each time (I am not sure if that is market rate but I am certainly very happy with it).

for those with about 60K annual income, approx 5 yrs working experience, how many hours do you put in a day? Do you get to knock off on time or have to work under tight deadlines/overtime most of the time?

My friend's friend earns 4K a mth as a poly lecturer, i think she will get about 2.5mths bonus on the average which gives her approx 58K per annum. She gets to knock off on time (no later than 7pm) except for some days when there are school meetings.

just a 2K difference and I work on average until 8-9pm everyday and high work stress. Not sure if it's worth it, thinking of caving in and taking life easy.

LOL you have just shown how poor your upbringing is with your manners and language.. Think you are the one who should shut up.. I bet you inflated your own credentials since this is the Internet.. Rmb to wipe your mouth before you open it..

No wonder the private sector job market is screwed with this kind of loser useless HR/Hiring Manager. "RMIT, Curtin, this kind of junk", once again, this speaks volumes on your upbringing.. So sad.. You have lived your life in vain..

bobo's post makes sense although he's too direct that it hurts.

Basically, what' important in considering a career is the total lifetime compensation and not just the starting pay.

In fact, there appears to be an inverse correlation between starting pay and total lifetime compensation.

Thanks. If you have 10 years experience, don't you think WDA is a bit small potato for you? Stat boards are already rather small organisations and WDA is like the small fish.

I know they call their fresh grads 'Mgrs' if that helps. I think its better to be known as an executive in a big company than an asst director in a small company.

Just my opinion. From my experience, it's quite amusing to see an assistant director or 'head' deal with my executive.

The pte sector job mkt is screwed? News to me but yeah, it is filled with useless hirers like myself. Since you got me all curious now, I found out that RMIT and Curtin are among the top...300 universities in the world. Read and weep. What their junk status has to do my family upbringing, I have no idea. Good luck in your career.

Haha.. Glad that you admitted yourself that you're useless.. Kid, listen up, you're in a state of constant self-denial.. No matter how high you're going to climb in the private sector or have climbed, to me and to others who can discern the **** coming out of your mouth, youre nothing but a piece of human junk LOL

Hi all, I know the following is a bit irrelevant here, but I will like to consult all veterans here whether a stat board or ministry will check why you got downgraded in ns when you are offered a job? Like for me I got downgraded due to psycho illness. Thanks.

Hi Bobo, first of all, i like to say that your comments are good and fair.
ignore that prick who only knows how to hurl rubbish without any facts to substantiate himself

But i managed to earn more than 5k in 4 years of working.
I am a 3rd class honours from NUS, mech engine.
Started off in a shipyard as an engineer with 2.4k per month.
Left the shipyard 3 years later at 2.8k per month.
Managed to get into a MNC at 5.1k per month.
So i say it is possible.

enough already!
 

Most discerning readers will know who is sharing hard truths, and who is spilling insecurity bile.

I make hiring decisions and the sad fact is that many qualified (some even highly) foreign job seekers are willing to do more with less. Although I empathize with the young fresh grads, sometimes it just does not make compelling business sense to hire them. Yes it may be short sighted but it is a moot argument under the existing government policies.

Hi, I suppose your 1st job as a shipyard engineer is at ST Marine? Why?, Because after 3 years with the same company, you only getting 2.8k when you start off with 2.4k. I assume during this 3 years, you got 3 annual increment + 1 promotion to senior engineer, from my brother(Also from ST Engineering group), every annual increment is about 3-4% & promotion is about 4-6%. Which is CMI.

I congrats you that you managed to jump ship to a new job, with about 82% jump increment to $5.1k per month. This is really alot!!!, almost double your previous salary of $2.8k. How you do it??

Yes, you are right. How astute.

I got an "A" grade in my last appraisal so my bonus was quite a lot.
During my job interview with the MNC, i told him my pay was xxx.
I took my annual (including bonuses) and divide by 12.
They didnt ask if it was gross or included bonuses...so i kept quiet.

I ask for a certain % above this stated pay. They didnt bargain and gave me what i wanted.

Lol, they(your new company) never ask you the last pay slip one when talking about your new salary??Haha...you are lucky man

Hello Bobo and all
 

Well, I agree that 10yrs experience in the pte sector, especially in a SME had put my experience meter to overdrive, having to manage the business from scratch and not doing too shabby.

However, it is still a SME and MNCs definitely pay better, from what I see in this forum, even for the same job responsibilities.

Doing an MBA I guess will also help (minimum local uni if not IVY league schools). The quality of the MBA is impt, even when I hire myself as I know the gulf in standards too.

Finally, let's keep this forum useful and not let our emotions get in the way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

May I know is your work experience related/transferable to this new MNC?

How did you get the interview, headhunted?

Love to hear success stories like this, happy for you :)

Another success story of an early 30s engineer ;)

i have already moved on from that MNC.
But anyway, they didnt ask for my payslip. It was new setup, expanding in South East Asia so i guess they wanted to hire as soon as possible.

the work at the MNC was not entirely related of my work in the shipyard. got the job via a recruitment agency

how old are you? or u born in which year , 1982 or 1981 or 1980??

Hospitall offer vs private firm
 

Hi, are public hospital considered civil service? I thought they are, since they r under the perview of MOH and headed by govt officials.

I have abt 12 yrs of working experience. But my degree (generic one) is from SIM though . I obtained it in yr 2003.

I am being offered an exe position (Max scheme), at 3.6k.

But at the same time, i have another offer at 4.8k as a manager at a private insurance firm.

I am in a fix because on one hand, hospital jobs r recession proof and have good bonus (3-4 mths, inculding PB, etc). If i dont do something stupid, i can be quite sure i can stay there till 65 yrs old.

But the career path is stagnant, slow and the job is, rather skewed towards civil mindset. Furthermore, being a SIM grad, i feel that i dun have any edge against the govt uni grads.

I also do not have any local poly certs, all privately taken, except O lvls.

I am 33, male.

I'd like the insurance firm (non-life), which enables me to display to the best of my abilities. But i also understand i am at the mercy of the firm when retremchment comes. However, the perks are: if i do well, i may be head hunted.

Any helpful comments?

born in year 1978

Hospital offer vs private firm
 

Hi, are public hospital considered civil service? I thought they are, since they r under the perview of MOH and headed by govt officials.

I have abt 12 yrs of working experience. But my degree (generic one) is from SIM though . I obtained it in yr 2003.

I am being offered an exe position (Max scheme), at 3.6k.

But at the same time, i have another offer at 4.8k as a manager at a private insurance firm.

I am in a fix because on one hand, hospital jobs r recession proof and have good bonus (3-4 mths, inculding PB, etc). If i dont do something stupid, i can be quite sure i can stay there till 65 yrs old.

But the career path is stagnant, slow and the job is, rather skewed towards civil mindset. Furthermore, being a SIM grad, i feel that i dun have any edge against the govt uni grads.

I also do not have any local poly certs, all privately taken, except O lvls.

I am 33, male.

I'd like the insurance firm (non-life), which enables me to display to the best of my abilities. But i also understand i am at the mercy of the firm when retremchment comes. However, the perks are: if i do well, i may be head hunted.

Any helpful comments?

Sorry for the double posts
 

Sorry abt the double posting. Having some issues abt posting them using iphone.

wow, till now then i know hospital do payout 3-4 months of bonus, not bad

How did you get 12 years of working experience if you graduated from SIM in 2003??? 2011 has barely started, and I doubt you graduated in 2003 Jan. Also, seeing that you're 33, you started work at 21?

Sounds more like you have 6 years of working experience only.

Whatever it is, you only graduated in 2003, so whatever you were doing before than, like frying burgers at Burger King doesn't count - it was work for non-graduates.

If you're a SIM graduate, you're at the mercy of those with better degrees, whether or not you're in the civil service or government. I would also imagine the insurance company pays better bonus than the hospitals.

Are you sure you know what's going on? Your story seems rather confused.

I would rate you at this price as well. If you really have a 4.8k offer, you should take it, there aren't too many people who would rate you so highly. I certainly wouldn't.

Actually bobo, maybe u should spend some time reading his post again. Even though he graduated in 2003, it might have been with a part-time degree, so he could have been working in a full-time job concurrently.

Also, he does have private diplomas so who is to say that he was only doing work like "frying burgers at Burger King"? Are you saying that people with diplomas are not doing meaningful work? Or only graduates do meaningful work?

However, I do strongly advise him to clarify a little more on his post, so that people who are confused by it can be enlightened.

I started working at about 21, while holding O levels. Then obtained a private diploma at age 23, before finishing a part time degree at 26.

Again, I am now 33 of age.

Hence, I have about 5 yrs of working experience as a non-grad, and 7 yrs as a grad (SIM).

So, I believe I am not confusing anyone when I am saying I have 12 years of working experience, but, I also understand that there are certain HR that views my working exp as only 7 yrs (as a grad).

Hope that helps.

Horute Senate,
 

Well, actually, I am being offered this price because I had registered a private firm dealing with general insurance by-products years ago, and unfortunately, I had to close it down due to the financial crisis in yr 2008.

I guess it might be my experience and contacts that the insurance firm are after, not my qualifications.

But thanks Bobo, for your advice. I take it.