Not bad. Managed to escape the delisted axe for an average school. Their grads do surprisingly well. I think handful of recently made up Big 4 junior partners were frm Notts

Good option if you wanna slack off n have fun during uni days. But when it is time for practice, better work damn hard

You must be from NUS. Taking another low potshot at other grads instead of working hard.

Their grads do surprisingly bad. I think handful of burnout Big 4 junior associates were frm NUS.

Good option if you don't wanna slack off n have fun during uni days. But when it is time for practice, better continue working damn hard

Lol yes I was from local law school. I'm doing well thank you. I don't even work that hard, for pretty cushy pay. Definitely not 12mn 1am private prac hours. Inhouse FTW.

Anyway, how was that a low potshot? I said Notts grads do surprisingly well. Implicit in my comment is the recognition that it's not the school, but how you actually perform in practice, that gives u the ideal career outcomes. As I understand, the running toxicity in this thread is about stick-up-their arses harping on local vs overseas law schools as the only criterion of success.

Nobody would seriously dispute that Notts < Oxbridge + London Unis. Or even Bristol/Warwick. OP was asking how Notts was, so my opinion was responsive to that.

A Notts grad doing well surprises you?
OP was asking how Notts was, u aren’t even from Notts.

~ok school but boring ass town

No self respecting UK grad refers to their university a 'school'. Only sinkie grads with horrid grammar tend to use phrases such as 'boring ass town'. Oso, 'boring ass' is more american than british.

Nice try NUS dude, but darling, next time let's not be such a wankerer.

ok school
lousy school
every school is a good school

#sinkiespotted #NUSfail

Anyone can share experience please

Yeah please share FR.

No idea why you guys are bothering to ask on an anonymous forum. Just ask your friends.

“FR”. i see you have joined us from another motorbike forum

We want to crowd-sauce experience here. And find out all the true experience and FR

any reviews on pk wong & nair? how's the work culture like

Abuse, Whistleblow
 

I am small firm Assoc, who moved from a much larger firm 2-3x its size after spending 1++ years with the firm.

I never suffered abuse from my previous firm. However, in the current small firm, I am constantly being berated by Partner. Almost on a weekly basis. Okay with the others.

Pool system, but one partner keeps bashing over the small things. Whether I attend CPD, whether I clock my billables. My fellow Assocs keep getting cc-ed in all of Partner's issues with me.

I have been accused of delegating work to my Trainees, when my Trainee literally does not do anything at all. I have taken responsibility as an Assoc, and in fact, Trainee does not even do my work.

Does LawSoc even have a whistleblowing hotline? Will King of Singapore Listen?

motorbike FTW
intro recruiter so i can go international firm, if not no money buy car

how many trainees you have

disgruntled
 

2 shared across

Not going to divulge specific names, but I have found recruiters from Formative Search and Michael Page to be slightly more trustworthy. They actually told me outright that my current role is better or that I am not suitable for certain roles.

This is compared to people who tell me to apply when the JD is completely out of line with my current PQE or experience level.

Hey my learned friend. Just wanted to message to say sorry for your difficult circumstances - your work place sounds toxic. Not sure if there is any recourse via LawSoc, so may be best to hop to another firm/leave. May I ask though, why did you leave your first firm if you didn't suffer abuse there?

Anyone identified the NUS law student who dissed SUSS?

suspect it's a SMU student pretending to be NUS lol

What's this about. What saga

What is rodyk’s latest salary for NQ to 3pqe?

://businessinsider.com/big-law-partner-pay-gibson-dunn-10-million-kirkland-effect-2022-3?r=US&IR=T
Big Law partners are getting paid like star athletes, with top earners now making $10 million or more. Call it the Kirkland effect.

In some upper-echelon circles of the legal industry, lawyers have long thought of themselves as service providers to clients, with the amount of money they are paid treated as almost an afterthought.

The work comes first, and the money follows, or so it's been preached at firms like Wachtell, Cravath, and white-shoe establishments that favor the institution over individuality.

But now, more and more law firms are willing to shell out eight figures to their biggest rainmakers. And those pay packages are luring away younger stars from traditional firms.

The leader of the pack, Kirkland & Ellis, pays top earners more than $20 million a year, according to people familiar with the matter. More than any other firm, Kirkland's willingness to pay increasingly large sums to top partners has driven other firms to do the same, law-firm partners, recruiters, and consultants told Insider.

The latest law firm to feel the squeeze is Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. The Los Angeles litigation firm recently tweaked its pay model to pay top partners up to $12 or $13 million, according to two partners with direct knowledge of the matter and one former firm partner.

"We were paying top rainmakers well below market," said one firm partner, who added that the country's top 20 law firms are all competing for the same client work and talent. "If you are trying to attract top talent, you have to bust open your compensation structure."

A second Gibson Dunn partner referred to the new policy as "more of a Kirkland model."
A third lawyer who is a former firm partner said the change in compensation was a significant shift for the firm and that he was unaware of any time in recent memory when the firm went through such a restructuring of partner pay. Historically, the firm paid its top partners four times as much as its most junior partners, this person said. Now, top partners will make at least five times as much.

A spokesperson for Gibson Dunn declined to comment.

Lawyers are making 'ballplayer money'
Decades ago, many elite law firms paid their partners using a so-called lockstep model, where pay increased with seniority. Now, lawyers act like free agents, and the clients they bring in determine their value.

Several firms have the ability to pay a handful of partners on par with the fund managers and bankers they turn to for business.

At Kirkland, Latham & Watkins, and elsewhere, an elite group of rainmakers with books of business worth in the range of $100 million is increasingly commanding eight-figure compensation packages, particularly in corporate, finance, and deals groups, recruiters and law-firm partners told Insider.

Top partners at Paul Weiss, Willkie Farr, Weil Gotshal, and others are also commanding eight-figure pay, recruiters said.

"It's ballplayer money," said Sarah Morris, a recruiter at the search firm Macrae.
Matthew Bersani, a legal consultant at Cliff Group who spent decades as a partner at a large law firm, estimated that there were now "30 to 40 firms where there's a partner making more than $10 million."

Rising partner pay comes as Big Law firms post record profits
The sky-high pay numbers come at a time when law firms are reporting extraordinary growth. Propelled by transactions work and fast-rising hourly rates, law-firm revenues went up 14% last year, according to a Wells Fargo survey of 130 firms.

As revenue and profits soar at the top firms, partner compensation has "gone through the roof," Jon Truster, who specializes in partner recruiting at Macrae, said. Equity-partner classes have also gotten smaller, allowing firms to share more profits with top rainmakers, according to Truster.

Another recruiter, Mark Jungers, said firms were attentive to pay for top partners because they were wary of them being poached by Kirkland.

"The Kirkland effect is that there are people out there with businesses that justify basically almost any amount of compensation," Jungers said. "And so if Kirkland always wants these people, and is willing to pay them, if you want these people, you also have to be willing to join the pay party."

A representative for Kirkland declined to comment for this story.

Gary Miles, a recruiter, said many firms were evaluating whether to change their compensation systems in light of the new environment in which partners earn more.
The key, he said, is staying competitive "so they don't lose their partners to the Kirklands of the world."

It's unclear how the news of Gibson Dunn's pay change is being received across the partnership. Its partners usually make the most money toward the end of the year, when client bills come in and their performance is evaluated, according to one of the firm partners.

This person believes that bigger pay for top-earners will enable the law firm to expand its corporate department in order to compete with firms like Kirkland and Paul Weiss. The changes may also allow partners with big books of business to climb the compensation ladder more quickly, the partner said.

Top lawyer pay is rising as other industries struggle
The Big Law changes come as many businesses have struggled in the wake of the pandemic, particularly in the retail, hospitality, and energy sectors.

Large law firms, by contrast, have seen their profits soar as attorneys have been summoned to advise on the bankruptcies, mergers and acquisitions, and litigations that have marked the tumultuous period.

David Walden, a legal recruiter, said the pay of top rainmakers was already rising before the pandemic but had recently taken off even further. He said he was struck by the fact that some lawyers earned more than many investment bankers.

"Most workers — blue collar or white collar — barely increase their compensation year to year to keep up with inflation," Walden said.

"It used to be unheard of to have partners make 8, 10, 15, and some of them $20 million a year," he said.

Alisa Levin, a legal recruiter who has encouraged lawyers to donate to the UJA-Federation of New York, said she'd noticed a shift at fundraising events.

"The big bucks came from the Wall Street division, and the lawyers were giving nice little gifts, but nothing like it," Levin said. "I said, 'This does not reflect reality anymore. Lawyers are really accumulating wealth now.'"

Different markets. US legal market supports a population of 300 million. The lawyers here support a market of 5 million. US has many strong MNCs. How many real MNCs does Singapore have?

Impossible for compensation to reach such heights here.

pqe3 - 8800-9800
pqe2 - 7800-8400
pqe1 - 6600-7000
nq - 6000

I thought Dentons is international firm? Why not NQ above 10k

Dentons is a swiss verein meaning each country's office is a separate firm and profit pool, under the Dentons branding and network.

It functions more like an accounting network than a law firm with worldwide offices.

Dentons Rodyk in Singapore is, for all intents and purposes, Rodyk. A local firm.

But branding does work on clients and the public. As evidenced by your query.

Can explain what the range means? Is it the variable component after accounting for frontload?

A good understanding of the verein structure. Impressive.

A few of the big firms now do a tiered system, where lawyers from certain more profitable departments are paid higher salaries to reflect higher workload and higher fees. Apparently R&T and Drew do the same, so Dentons is not the only one.

Does anyone know what's the current pay for D&N (if you qualified last Aug)?

pqe3 - 8200-9500
pqe2 - 7600-8200
pqe1 - 6600-7000
nq - 6000

Not sure where you got the random numbers from, these folks are paid MC-comparable salaries with a runway to the full US scale. The threshold for getting is still very high and unlike other firms, no prejudice against giving local uni grads a chance.

Why is there a discrepancy from the numbers around 1 page back, which someone posted was:
pqe3 - 8800-9800
pqe2 - 7800-8400
pqe1 - 6600-7000
nq - 6000

This profession is toxic
 

The older firm couldn’t afford me anymore, remuneration wise. It was well below market rate and there wasn’t much work coming in. Practically all the partners are semi retired. Remuneration was slightly more over at my present place and it had links commercially. The rosy picture was well a false facade. I’ve learnt that Associates don’t last past 6mth-1yr.

The current firm encourages file bidding, and you get accused of being non pro active if you don’t get involved in volunteering yourself. This gets inextricably linked to bonuses.

I’ve been sabotaged by my fellow Associates over minor things, which they do in their bid to please the Partners. These Partners love bootlickers and favoritism. Associates have sabotaged trainees too to prevent them from surpassing them.

Partners turn a blind eye to behind the scenes, exercise favourite am, while they fill their rich pockets with profits, nice cars and big homes, I’ve not had a week since a joined the firm without abuse.

As mentioned, been singled out by one Partner all the time. Im tired of the accusations which pains me everyday. They are unsubstantiated and this Partner has tried to force me to confess things that I have never done. Partner does not give me a chance to speak and interrupts when I try to contribute.

As I post this, I am so genuinely disheartened. I doubt my ownself everyday. Never felt like this as TC or in my previous place.

Helpless and hopeless. Why did I join law?

Associates have sabotaged trainees too to prevent them from surpassing them. >>> can anyone advise if this is common?

Not common la don't overthink things.

It's more that some Associates don't really want to "waste" time teaching or helping trainees and will tell them "go figure out yourself", because these Associates want to slack or think they too busy. This becomes a pattern because when those trainees become associates they will do the same thing "last time also nobody helped me".

Seems like it's a small firm problem. Not to be unsympathetic but you might do better in a larger firm. The prospects of landing an environment where you can thrive in practice increase exponentially in larger firms. So I'd hesitate to tar the whole profession with the same brush. Your experiences are not representative of the industry as a whole.

The sad reality is, life at the low end of the legal industry value-chain sucks balls. This is generally true of most industries, but accentuated in law given the demanding nature of practice (no matter how small value your firm's cases/deals are) and how closely you work with practitioners. Law is all about individual experts delivering intellectual services (which is the product itself) to clients. So if your principal is shi tty, it really sucks.

I'm going to be blunt here to suggest that fresh grads & newbie lawyers who can't make it to larger firms (whether due to poor grades or other reasons making u an uncompetitive candidate), should strongly consider quitting law entirely and doing something else. While you're still young and it's easy to pivot your career.

Don't waste time working in small law firms dealing with small low-value cases & petty egoistical bosses (who made their decent money in earlier times when law was still easily lucrative even just doing Chinatown work or HDB conveyancing-type work).

The effort-to-reward ratio is absolutely not worth it at the bottom end of law. For the amount of effort/hours you put into the grind, and your intellect (I'd assume that you're generally bright enough to get thru law school and pass the Bar), you would do much better in some other less demanding or competitive industries. Who knows, you may do very well and outshine non-law people in these less intense industries.

Think about it seriously.

anyone has a list of the starting salaries for fresh grad at law firms for this coming batch? this year's offer increased?