Big4 is an easier route to partner than most int firms.

For int firms, they have a limited number of counsel/partner slots for the Asian market. You basically can't get it unless someone leaves or dies (or some senior partners argue heavily for you).

Int firms get you to a higher pay fast, but the glass (Asian) ceiling is going to be hanging over your head.

According to some learned friends in this forum, it depends on how much they like your face wor

This one is a ****ing myth la. There is no glass ceiling in international firms - not at least by virtue of race.

In Big4, it is no longer the case that if you stay long enough, partnership is a given. Nowadays the partnership ranks are so saturated that it takes more than long service to make it to partner (think about it, 30+ years as a partner vs 7+ years as an associate - long-service promotion is unsustainable unless the Singapore economy grows exponentially every year). You need something more to set yourself apart. This means that the associate has to have a strong network, potential for a book of business, or angkat one or more partners' balls. If international firms have a limited number of "slots" for Asia-based partners (if there even is such an arbitrary concept), then Singapore law firms will probably similarly have a limited number of "slots" for Singapore-based partners.

I've seen many many competent lawyers get passed up for promotion in my years at big4. It's a microcosm of the Singapore economy, really. Last time, middle class folks could afford a car and a house. This was during the economic boom. Now that the economy is plateauing, middle class folks can't afford ****. Same as big4 - last time, mediocre lawyers who lasted the distance could make it to "partner", and now it's way harder to do so.

In any event, law firm business models are all the ****ing same - that includes Singapore law firms. Barring racism, why should the promotion criteria of international firms vs Singapore firms be any different?

So many ppl asking about making partner but I wonder how many of y’all actually got the PQE to be having that conversation lol

I guess its "easier" to make partner in a local firm because you don't have to compete with your foreign counterparts? Since the OP was asking about disputes, being in a local firm means you practice litigation, which is a protected area in which foreign lawyers cant practice in. Would that make it easier to "build a book" as compared to doing arbi in an intl firm?

I suppose one thing to clarify here is that making “partner” in a local firm is quite different from that in international firms. Junior partners in local firms (especially those who are freshly minted) are more akin to counsel level folks in international firms - probably in skill, and responsibility.

You’re right in that Singapore litigation is a protected practice area. Barriers to competition do make it easier for local practitioners to practice their craft, but bear in mind that Singapore is a ****ing small market. International firms can target international clients. Granted that a bigger pond doesn’t necessarily mean easier pickings (vice versa), so I’m not sure whether book building in a Singapore focused litigation practice is a lot easier. Also bear in mind that some international firms have Singapore qualified arms (I’m looking at you CC and BM…), so competition can get fierce.

Thoughts on Shook Lin & Bok ransomware attack?

Tiagong several other law firms also got hit... but Shook Lin's one just the most jialat.

Freshfields NQ £150k now

When Big4 increase NQ to 150k SGD?

Singapore battles to revive struggling stock market: ft.com/content/656b387e-a21e-4200-9fb6-8e9474408412

Thoughts?

This kind of question is damn ****ing stupid. Big 4 will raise salaries to match magic circle when SG economy is the same as the UK. Short answer and oversimplification.

Well - businesses, law firms and even the financial presses' HQs are all moving from Hong Kong to Singapore, so this should have a significant impact on our economy

APAC/SEA HQs*

Pls la. Everybody makes “salary” (non-equity; i.e., just title only/glorified associate slave) in local law firm after 7/8 years - it’s tough to get there, but it’s no longer the coveted position cos one still need to suck actual “equity” partners’ kok until he/she dies then can maaaaybe promote someday when sperms die/eggs run out.

Intl US law firm pays US$225,000 a year before bonus - that is a salary even a junior salary partner can only dream of…

Stupid is u falling for an obvious low effort troll post

Ya **** I kena baited sia

Hi fellow kind Sinkies,

Genuine die-lemma: should I choose to join (i) a local Big 4 law firm as senior associate (paid less and work harder/sleep less (therefore likely to burn out), but can become PARTNER) or (ii) an international law firm (paid more and work less/sleep more, but very hard to become partner)?

To give context, pay is $15k+/month at local and $20k+/month at intl, which seems marginal now, but at intl it can go up to $30-40k+/month.

Thanks u :)

wake up and stick to slogging it out drafting wills at your chinatown law firm la

Aiyo why this dumbo sound so bitter??? Must be failure local grad/law firm.

Work less and sleep more at the intl firm? The higher salary doesn't come for free you know

This guy clearly uninformed. US$225k a year after tax is about US$150k a year or about US$12.5k a month. That’s about $17k SGD which is about or slightly less than what a big 4 JP takes home.

ya, that's what their US NQ (equivalent to out SG NQ minus 1-2 years) makes.

and you're comparing it saying it's equivalent to a "JP"


says a lot don't you think.

Did you go to law school? I was replying the OP, who said that they make a salary a JP “can only dream of”. I was just correcting him that the JPs make something equivalent, so the statement is inaccurate.

In any case, the US grads also spend an additional 3 years studying for their JD

It is true that the salary does not come for free. However, intl firms tend to bill at US/UK rates for lawyers, which are far higher than the SG rate (not even factoring for currency strength).

Therefore, intl firm lawyers need to hit less billable targets to earn the same amount as local b4 lawyers.

This translates to more *hypothetical* down time for the intl firm lawyers. Of course, YMMV.

Will be joining a construction law team soon but having second thoughts

Any construction lawyers here can share how did u find your passion for this practice area? It seems very narrow and dry. Even a specialized area like IP seems marginally more interesting

How does ur construction and built environment sector knowledge translate to exit ops? Whether to other practice areas like infrastructure n projects, or to inhouse industries?

Hope to hear some thoughts!

If local practice, the most you can aspire to is SOPA adjudicator and SAL specialist lol

SOPA adjudicator more for glory of playing at being judge, the pay is like CLAS honorarium

SAL specialist sounds nice on your firm website, but need to take a lot of exams and don't really do much for BD imo. Construction law sector so small here anwyay

Hope you like stupidly tight timelines if your team is going to be SOPA focused

SOPA actions have very very tight timelines, expect to burn the midnight oil if your firm specialises in that.

Skills-wise not that much different from normal litigation/arbitration teams except you do a lot of document review. Your likely future roles will be in construction though, because construction teams pay a premium for construction-trained lawyers (and because nobody wants to do this field).

Exit is usually to construction in-house firms also.

Aug 2022 called. Sg qualified. Salary 9-10k per month gross including bonus. Private practice. But very good hours. Average about 7hours billables a day. Late nights rare. How do I fare if I'm not inclined to work more hours for more money (for eg. going to mc or sc firms)?

if you're happy where you are, stay where you are - no need to think so much

Big 4? Sounds good

nope not B4

just got a promotion at 2pqe in a big4, 9.2k take home - reasonable?

Now you are still associate?

What are your working hours like?

Auditors just got pay raise!

What do you mean by 2PQE (because some have different definitions)? What is your year of call?

How do people with odd call timings count their PQE? Firm’s discretion? I’ve heard mixed comments on this. Say you’re called in March. Do you turn your PQE next your March? Or become PQE 1 come August mass call?

Wah this kind of question… Young lawyers are getting misled by the stupid PQE counting system adopted by the big 4.

Honestly, just count from call date to call date. Actual time spent in practice is what law firms / recruiters care about. PQE is just a way to approximate that. Imagine getting called in March and telling people that you’ve magically turned into 1PQE in August, it would be embarrassing to have to backpedal and qualify that statement if people poke further.

Believe the industry has some conventional understanding of the term:

NQ = called this calender year, regardless which month, i.e.2024
1 PQE = called last year, i.e. 2023
2 PQE = called in 2022.

This may "shortchange" those called in March and Apr, but honestly the industry doesnt care andand what is more important usually is still the quality of the lawyer you have before you.

Why hasn’t Clarence Lun rejoined Fervent Chambers after his suspension ended? Is it because of the 2 lawsuits he is currently personally embroiled in?