This again is so wrong. Until 3 is correct. 4 onwards is blackbox. I have heard 6pqe earn higher than 18 before

Is this front loaded?

BM doesn’t front load bonus.
When you say front load I assume the concern is whether your bonus is base (minus frontload) x X no of months?

You must be from a delisted law school. Siam and go drive Gojek la you are nowhere worth it to compete with NUS grads.

Sorry so can I clarify, BM starting salary is ~7.5k/mo + year end bonus, while local B4 starting salary is ~5.6k/mo with no year end bonus? Is that what it means when you say local b4 frontloads?

Thanks

what is the percentage of chiobus in each call batch and which firm do they usually end up in

ur mum la ccb

There are lot more details to it which I shall not divulge. For example, B4 salary annual increment takes place at a different time from BMWL increment. Also, B4 still pays bonus on top of the frontloaded bonus.

Frontloaded salary works this way:

Say you are paid $4,500 per month (that’s your base).
But if firms were to pay $4,500 per month, no one would join.

So to entice young associates, they pay $6,000 for instance. But the $1,500 is frontloaded.

Which means when you get your bonus of 2-3 months, it is based on the $4,500 per month. So if you calculated $4,500 x 3 months (bonus) it’s equal to $13,500 which is 2.25 months on $6,000 salary.

In firms that don’t practice front load, it means your bonus of 3-4 months is based on $7,500. That’s the meaning

so the increase from NQ to 2PQE (2 years) is at 1.5k now?

Thanks bro

Thanks sis

cheers man

your mum is frontloaded

Thx mannnnn

Since this is an expectation problem, one possible solution is for salaries to be stated on an annual comp package like is done in other countries, with expectation that bonus is low, e.g. 0.5 to 1 month residual.

The reason why Singapore job market talks about salaries in monthly rate and not annual is because of our monthly CPF computations.

That said, u can't put lipstick on a pig. Sweatshop means sweatshop, and that's what Singapore law firms are.

Why can't you? Those female pigs need to get out there and make pork chops man

Also note that if you resign, some firms stop the front load so during your notice your pay will actually be lower.

why? Isnt front load a constant pay?

No, it's a bonus component so it's technically variable.

Non-payment of bonus during notice period is quite standard for B4.

That’s why we alr said if you compare big 4 and BMWL - which to go is a no brainer.

One pays you a base of 7.5

One pays you a base of 4.5 frontload ~1.5

The small firms pay you a base of 4.5 but if the firm does well financially you get 4-5 months. So same as b4, but for better hours

You're forgetting exit options. It's easier to jump to international firms and inhouse counsel roles with B4 on ur CV, which still carries some brand name and is widely regarded as a good training ground, at least for corp.

A small firm doesn't open that many doors and you would be seriously disadvantaged compared to the legion of B4 associates also looking to move around the same time.

some hiring managers in MNCs won't shortlist you if you don't have B4/intl firm experience

It's constant insofar as you stay in the firm (i.e. they aren't going to claw it back at the end of the year for "poor performance" or if they give you a "low bonus").

The way the bonus works is that you are "guaranteed" (unless you quit) x mths of bonus a year, that is frontloaded into your salary. And at the end of the year you get a discretionary y mths of bonus. Ignore the x mths of bonus (that's just your salary calculated another way for their benefit).

Essentially, it just allows the firm to get away with paying a "lower" bonus since a 6-7 mth bonus is actually 2-3 mths, as about 4 mths have been "frontloaded" into your salary throughout the year. Additionally, your 2-3 mths bonus is not even as high as you expect, since the bonus is based on "un-frontloaded" salary. It also allows firm to clawback your frontloaded "bonus" component of your salary if you choose to quit (since the bonus is contingent on you staying for the full quarter/mid-year/year).

Seems like the only conclusion from the above posts are there its not worth joining a sg firm

agree. London better.

i mean if u can join an int'l firm then of cos better la. the majority of people can't so suck thumb lor

Aiya anw you chose this path. lawyering is far from the best job in terms of effort-to-reward ratio, everybody knows that. u can hv a much better or more lucrative life doing other things

some jobs dont need to put in that many hours but you need to compete in other ways, like sucking up to the right ppl, wayanging playing office politics and tai-ching away work

other jobs like sales, you can get by if you're a smooth talker and know how to schoomze with various ppl. best industries r those u can do jack all and full of not so bright chiobus in the same industry u can trick into getting urself laid

at the junior level, law demands a certain kind of personality that requires u to suck it up or quit, and hang around highly strung plain-Jane nerdy girls to boot

Interned as a recruiter before. Can confirm this.

It’s fine if you’re willing to suck up the shittier pay, same long working hours, for the prospect of making the leap to an international firm a couple of years post-qualification, get a decent in-house job, or the slim chance of making partner.

It should be noted that at the junior level for corp, A&G and WongP corp provide good training which is superior to BMWL. They have an established system for training fresh graduates, although for corp one should always take an opportunity from CC if it arises. For litigation, for training purposes it would highly depend on the team you are assigned to. Davinder Singh chambers under DS himself > random litigator under Big 4/intl firm.

100% truth. You hit a chord there.

It's a **** job

L&W has quite a few from A&G (ie SG’s only elite corp firm). In other news they offer UK training contract with 3 seats in SG and one in London - no need to get SG qualified (:

Heard it only offers us rates after 3 years on the job (unless u lateral from a peer firm - which no sg firm is) and its "competitive rates" for those 3 years

Jaded. How many of you feel that Singapore has declined significantly over the last decade? Stagnant pay not keeping up with inflation (except for politicians), rising GST tax and threat of future income taxes raises, rising hdb prices, cecas threatening to take our professional jobs, murderous crazy teens running amok in our midst, and such.

If you ask me ten years ago if I could see Singapore in such a sad state, I would have laughed in your face. Or do we just pop a xanax and see everything through rose-tinted glasses as we were taught in schools to do?

I’d say A&G > WongP clearly. Also, the “training” in those firms isn’t as structured as they sell it to be - most of the training I received was really just baptism by fire really.

wat abt sidley austin and gunderson

Word. Housing prices moon while salaries stay flat, and we are the snowflakes. Boomers gotta boom.

Interested to know about Sidley too since they are so elite in the US. I heard GD pays straight up US rates but can’t tell how far they dock your class year, eg sg 2019 ~ us class of 2020 or 2021 or more.

Seeing how the average Singaporean citizen doesn't benefit from CECA, I dare say that the ceca lawyers are better than Singaporean lawyers.

Harvard/Yale JDs/Oxbridge > India law schools >>> NUS/SMU LLB

Ironically the industry that needs replacement by CECA professionals the most given the aforementioned example is the one currently still protected from the ceca onslaught affecting other industries.

I beg to differ. Bmwl mna training is great.