HQ saying that teachers are in excess, and continue cutting headcount year after year

Which P dares to contradict HQ and say otherwise?

Why shake the boat? After all, it's the teachers who will be tanking more work, not the SLs.

Most schools have a top heavy structure. Many schools have surplus of SLs.

Not hard to understand why this cycle is going to continue.

How not to have top heavy structure when so many people want to climb? You read here, how people get frustrated that they don't get leadership posts. End up create more SH roles and you get bloat.

genuine question...in that case, does this top heavy phenomenon occur in other ministries and stat boards too?

sounds a bit strange because we dont hear much of these cases from other parts of the public sector

is their progression rate somewhat the same? and wont also be a lot of young people wanting to climb too?

You're in a thread that's dedicated to discussing teaching as a career. Hence you'll only know the issues relating to the teaching profession. I can imagine the same thing would occur in MFA where "farmers" may not be able to progress rapidly. Moreover, teaching is specialised profession where the skills are not transferable to other ministries or stat boards.

u tell me which idiot comes out from uni just want to be a low tier C- D grade GEO 2/3 forever and get arrowed or bossed around to fill the lower quota spots, so that you can safely occupy top managerial roles?

You don't have career aspirations meh?

Even people who only want to teach, it is not unreasonable for them to aspire to climb to GEO5/5A in a fair amount of time so that they can achieve reasonable salary progression and attain reasonable material aspirations. Not to live in the lap of luxury, but to earn comfortably enough.

Geo3 maxes out at 6250, Geo4 maxes at 7700. Can someone who even after working for 8 years, hit salary ceiling or Geo4 ceiling after 12 years really say that it's an unreasonable salary?

And please don't say "what about parents??" You all know that's a highly unique circumstance for every individual, so don't use that as a blanket excuse.

A geo4 couple who hit the salary cap can't buy BTO at all for goodness sake.

some of you bozos are really self serving. Expecting others not to have aspirations and stay stagnant, and demand more promotion for yourself. Call yourself role model go figure.

12 years of working to reach cap of geo4 (7.7k)? that's blasphemy, how is that even fair to teachers after slogging for so much they are paid less than an average MNC worker with around 5-6 years exp

Guess schools by way of the sheer numbers would be more like SME or at best ME than MNC?

Just last year, before the salary review, GEO3 maxes out at 5.6k
5.6k is very reachable within 6-7 years of service, as seen in the salaries shared by others previously. And that's with the reduced merit increments due to covid.

Someone who's in 8-10th year of service, should be hitting $6-6.5k. That's the range other grads are getting in the wider public service, GLCs.

BTO cap is $14k, or $7k each. To hit 7k, you would need 12-15 years of service as a normal teacher.

Factoring ns, uni, nie, teachers start work at 24-27 years old, do you expect teachers to only start applying for BTOs at 36 to 42 years old?

Median age of marriage is rising, and currently is around 30.

What paygrade would a typical 30yo teacher be? How much would a teacher with 5 yr of experience be earning?

Is that sum enough?

As many have observed, a lot of people do not want to aim for SEO, and are happy to stay at GEO5.

Not everyone aspire to take on managerial responsibility. Many are content to stay as MX11/11A Individual contributors, equivalent to GEO5 HOT.

Progression to MX11 or equivalent is faster than the climb to GEO5.

Not very comparable. MX 11 is just 2 grades away from MX13 where all fresh grads are put on. Then MX12 is a cohort promotion grade after 1 year (at least for most people). So that leaves MX11 being one grade away. This is as opposed to GEO 5 where trained grad EOs are put on GEO 2 and even accounting for GEO 3 as the cohort promotion grade, u have to promote 2 more times to reach GEO 5.

Which average mnc worker gets 7.7k after 6 years work?

You don't understand the BTO cap is it? It's the max for which you can apply bto. Once you exceed the cap you CAN'T APPLY for a BTO. No one is forcing you to apply for a BTO when you're 36.

Theres literally a deferred income assessment scheme for younger couples.

So are you these the teachers whining about how they deserve to be paid more. Sounds like they don't know much about the world.

most mncs do, esp those with presence in sg - a bountiful of them here in sg including fmcg, o&g, pharm and biotech, banks and much much more.

The deferred income assessment is for students who have no incomes.

You are avoiding the question.

Typical age of marriage is 30. What would be a comfortable income to apply for a decent house?

Don't think anyone is anywhere close to exceeding the ceiling at age 30.
If have, please tell me which sch got GEOs hitting 7k at age 30. I go apply

Given that grads form the top 30% of the cohort, we should also be looking at the top 30% of bto projects. So please don't go and quote some random 2 rms or 3rms

Any teachers got earn covid medals?

Is it fair if my wife's school asks her to go back to work tomorrow and on Thursday this week? She is part of the cockpit team in a secondary school. Aren't they supposed to work in the first and last week of the school holiday and have protected time in between?

Lol compare to banks biotech. Why not compare to lawyers and doctors also?

Aug 2023 launch Tengah 4rm flat: 350k (without grant). After grant confirm will be lower. Teacher couple at age 30, you can dare say that they won't have a comfortable income to apply for 4 room bto at Tengah?

Usually protected time for secondary schools starts when the primary school ends their school year ie around mid-Nov. Many sec schools have PVT periods until around the time when N level results are released (ard mid-Dec), where those on certain duties (FTs of classes and thus involved in results release, or KPs overseeing results released etc) return to school to report for their assigned duties. There are also other events eg Sec 1 registration starting soon etc.

Mid-Nov till mid-Dec is a good amount of about 3-4 weeks of PVT at least.

The Chui lawyer actually earn less than Geo 5

And teachers work is meaningful


My gp tutor was a lawyer. Then she found it meaningless
So came and taught gp. I respect her greatly

Teachers salary quite decent lah
Same as the rest of non scholar civil service

Starting 4plus, mid career 6plus, hentak kaki ar 8plus
Other stat board also same

You tell school janitor u earn 6plus , they say u rich
Cannot compare

She is just a GEO4, not KP or in charge of any event. She needs to go back today and tomorrow. Just wondering why they can't do it next week and had to go back to do today and tomorrow. Can't even work from home.

There are teachers (non KPs) who are also returning for duties these few days.
Some are even resuming CCA training sessions for students.

It is quite commonplace, frankly. And it’s all part of a teachers’ hearts to serve the organisation and support students.

Ask the Sch leaders whether you can have day off since you are working during protected break? I recall in saf, if you are required to work on non-working days like weekends, you get day off in as a compensation.

school starting where got time, if do early, rest early? and in before someone says she is paid for school holidays?

many of my mid-career teacher friends earn easily 8k base excluding bonus. around mid-30s.

Well it all depends on school needs and roles in various committees or leadership positions. If you are a KP or 4N FTs, you have to return to school this week for N Levels results release. If you are a school cockpit team, you have to go back to settle the incoming sec 1 students data and rest of the school. So yep first and last week is not a given.

By mid 30s, a male teacher would have been in service for 10 years, reached GEO4 and drawing 6k+ salary. Everyone knows that the civil service pays less while being more stable job wise.

What's the issue? That the civil service should be on par or exceed the private sector? We all know that Singapore society will be in uproar if that happens. So blame your fellow Singaporeans.

How can your so called many mid career teacher friends be earning 8k base, where an ordinary teacher max out at $8250 for Geo 5. The highest possible before the inception of Geo 5a.

All teachers will be chuckling at this suggestion.

I'm sure many teachers have already lost count of the number of entitled "off days" they have forfeited due to the sheer difficulty of claiming them.

Other sectors, even other ministries and stat boards - definitely no problems with claiming off days lol. This is a rare problem that probably only exists in this ministry

Most importantly, teachers' job is lifetime tenure. Very very hard to sack, as compared to lawyer, banker or other industry. Even C- grader or D grader can be "rescued" if improvement is shown. If compared to private sector, no such support is given to under-performing staff.

For ordinary teachers who are average performers, and also aged 40 and above, their salaries are likely to be in 7K range or max out at 8K. No company in the private sector will afford this kind of salary for average performer, let alone guarantee lifetime employment.

And to be honest, teachers' skillsets are pretty generic, so can't compare to the hotter jobs like data analysts, software engineers etc.

and this is also the exact reason why there is a progression delay due to the clog of excess people in their 50s getting "rescued" again and again

huge disadvantage to the younger ones who joined late

a male teacher in service for 10 years with an above-average performance would easily reach GEO5 with 8k salary

Don’t think so much, just take the day off and prepare relief work for your classes. Teachers’ well being is important to ensure positive student outcomes. A teacher who is burnt out is unlikely to bring out the best in his/her students.

lol? the reporting officer and principal will refuse and might even blacklist you. teachers arent allowed to claim off days during normal curriculum periods.

i suppose you arent a teacher in the first place? damn joker sia hahaha.

Cherrypicking again

So if people live in the east side, school in west side, parents (and future caretakers of children) live east side, all must uproot and move to tengah?

Ive got two friends who're of the same age as me (35 yo)

Female, SH (Math) in a pri sch
educated at NUS and masters in a renowned UK uni

Male, LH in a pri sch
educated in local unis

how much would each of them be earning? significant difference or not really?

Because banks, biotech hire from the same pool of graduates as moe?

How many law and medical sch grads sign on as teachers?

On the other hand, there are plenty of accountancy, business, chemistry, biomed, engineers joining teaching.

Recruitment is quite stringent, and those who get in typically have good honours. They could have joined their respective industries in the private sector if they wished to.