Raised concerns to RO, then HOD.
Reply was I'm young compared to other more experienced teachers on the team, need to chalk up more exp so no promotion. Mind you, I was doing their work, leading PLT projects, presenting at conferences at cluster level and beyond... Made my aspirations crystal clear. Didn't budge. Was advised to transfer for more varied exp while I am still young.

Doing work beyond your pay scale( sub grade) in most aspects well? Or just doing beyond in one/ two aspects ? Are there any areas of growth communicated at your geo3?

Work review focus on the 3 Ps. It’s important to differentiate between quality and quantity.
Nowadays, you need a number of years( eg 4-5) even in geo3 to gain experience before promotion. And decent grades throughout at geo3.

Hmmm, based on my observations...most SLs have hardly any information about promotion rates these days. HR seems to have some hidden algorithm or whatever to decide. But in general, promotions have indeed slowed down a lot. Perhaps compared to the past, each grade now requires an extra 1 or 2 years for promotion. Cumulatively all younger ones will probably take an extra 5 to 10 years to reach their predefined ceiling. A guess for this would be because in this ministry, the Gen X and older milennials entered during the golden period, enjoyed many adjustments and fast promotions, and have made the whole teaching force too top heavy. They can only slow it down now by dragging out promotions for new and young ones since they can't fire the old ones who have reached their ceilings early.

Across the whole civil service, salary or promotion is definitely tagged somewhat to an age range, unless you're a super high flying scholar.

You can only count on your SLs to raise your CEP, which may help speed up promotion...but it seems like the environment isn't very supportive. Otherwise, transfer elsewhere for a more suitable environment :)

I have observed that some teachers think/feel that they are doing a lot or going beyond what is expected in many areas, but when they are probed on the details ie what exactly is that additional load, you find that they are really just doing what is expected but spending a lot of time doing it (which is almost always the reason) because they don't know how to do it/doing it for the first time. I do have to emphasize though that this is what has been observed about some teachers and these teachers are not strong in T&L too so they always complain that they have endless work and though they seem to do a lot, the quality of their work is low and need a lot of support from the lead/IC/HOD.

Of course, there are other teachers who are strong in T&L and assessment so they can handle better and it shows in their attitude and mannerism. These officers can cope and shine. The difference between these two groups are huge. If you have aspirations but cannot cope, don't take up when offered/ask for more work. Know your limit and just be honest with your RO/SL. Otherwise, you will just end up drowning and becoming jaded. Be a HOT for now until you can cope with your current load.

Promotion rates have slowed indeed. Year in Service or Year in Grade has likely increased.

Degree/PGDE/DipEd
#years EXCLUDE NIE phase / contract teaching phase:

18 yrs, female, NIE grad, SEO1 (HOD), 9.8k
15 yrs, male, PGDE, SEO1 (HOD), 9.4k
16 yrs, female, Dip Ed, emplacement to degree during 8th year, GEO 4, 6k
12 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO5, 7.5k
12 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO5, 7.4k
11 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO5 (SH), 7.6k
9 yrs, female, HOD, NUS grad, GEO5, about 7k plus (she said it's below 8k)
8 yrs, male, GEO5, SH, 7.5K
8 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO 4, 6.1k
8 yrs, male, PGDE local FCH, GEO 3, 6.2k
8 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.9k
6 yrs, male, PGDE Overseas degree, GEO5 6.6k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO5 6.7k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO4 6.3k
6 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO4 (SH new), 6k
6 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 6.2k
6 yrs, female, Dip Ed, GEO3, 3.9k (no more emplacement)
5 yrs male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.5k (int SH)
5 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.1k
5 yrs, female, PGDE, GEO3, 5.1k
4 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.4k
4 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.6k
4 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.3k
3 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO3, 5.4k
3 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO3, 5.7k

Mid-Careers
Will be helpful to indicate the following
#years in private, #years in MOE:

13 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO5A, 8.5k (increment 5 to 5A was only $200)
4 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO4, 5.5k
4 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO3, 6.1k
1 yr, female, mid-career, GEO3, 5.9k

I have worked elsewhere before coming to MOE. You have to understand that the work culture has its roots in Confucianism. Thats why you see expectations for respect shows towards people of higher rank/age. Its not uncommon for people to boast about their age in the staff room while whatever the young ones have to say are not taken seriously.

If you cant accept this, perhaps its time to change jobs.

Would appreciate some advice on my situation. My RO hinted to me that I should aim to be an HOD as a possible career goal. Currently I am GEO5 but am not holding any SH positions
I know that if I want to climb I will need to leave the school because the leadership here is very static.

I really like the school that I'm at, it has a pretty good leadership and staff culture which I am not sure that I can find elsewhere. So for me it's having to decide between leaving for leadership opportunities in a different school which may be worse than where I am right now. Or just staying here and accepting that I may not be able to rise despite what my RO says.

Confucianism relies too heavily on the assumption that wisdom and maturity correlates with age/seniority. If the assumption holds, it is well and good because the wisest people would wield the most power to move the organisation forward.

Unfortunately, it mostly doesn't, and so our system by being rooted in Confucianism has set itself up for gross organisational inefficiency and slow pace of adaptation to change.

If you are in an environment with pretty good leadership and staff culture, stay. Unless your aspiration to climb the ladder is so strong that it trumps the importance of the culture you described. For many people, it is the reverse. We spend so many hours a day at work and make heavy emotional investment into our work. Culture tends to be the more important thing for many people, over and above advancement opportunities (if the two things don't happen to be available at the same workplace).

Something to consider as you start to look beyond your safe space for opportunities. Not saying it is wrong to move. But consider your source of job satisfaction and mental well-being too.

some ppl geo 3 for 7-10 years then promote, some 2-3 years. age as a criteria? serious? jus milking or competition too fierce

To be very frank, some ROs have no idea what they are doing and saying. I must say that it is a very irresponsible statement to make, to ask someone who is not even an appointment holder to “aim for HOD”. What kind of support has been given by him/her to develop you in this aspect? Is this the same sensing that the SLs have? If you like the school and had been getting A/B, you can have a talk with your SLs about possibility of internal appointment if your school practises that. They will be able to shed more light on how and where you can work towards. Positions may appear full, but if they really want you they will be able to make things happen.

There are some really committed and capable EP and of course those who simply cmi. I have written in to the P of my IPE/EPE to give praises as well as feedback. Imagine an IPE who couldn’t even sort out the admin and hindered the progress of the examinations. If no feedback is given, the person is likely to continue with the role and cause more harm in the long run. Just use the sandwich approach and exercise tact in the email.

Dilemma. Not sure if anyone can shed some light on this.

36 yo male, Geo 5, non-scholar, IP HOD. While I have been told that I am doing great, nothing concrete was ever presented to me to help me understand if I am working towards SL-ship. That is despite the fact that I have expressed my keenness in developing myself further. Perf grades have been a mixture of As and Bs over the last 8 years.

My school has never had anyone going for FHQ.

Question- which is a better choice?
1. Stay in the same school.
2. Apply for HQ posting on my own. How would that make a difference to my situation? Which division would you recommend?
3. Go to another school and take on another portfolio.
4. Try taking a scholarship for masters.

Thank you.

Fellow educators, wisen up! All the talk about CEP and extra workload and shining brigtly for others to see. Do all these bring you alot more $$$.? If passion is what ur talking about, then dont complain about the extra load and continue to work hard. Recognition at work goes far beyond just being good at your job. Theres a reason why some ppl climb fast while some dont even though they may be working much harder. Take this piece of wisdom

This is the silliest comment that reflects how narrow-minded one can be. Maslow hierarchy of needs will tell you that it goes beyond passion for one’s needs, and it may not be money that people are going for.

There are MANY reasons why someone goes up the corporate ladder, some may not be that they are doing a good job. This is a forum and people have different experiences and grievances. There are people who slogged and don’t get the due recognitions. You don’t expect life to be a bed of roses, with fabulous SLs and ROs, do you?

4 is out for sure. It won't really help you and may even hinder you. For HQ posting, you can try for AD position? That would help to develop you and may put you in the eyes of the senior management if they can push you further. As an IP HOD, would you consider a non IP division so that it expands your understanding further.

OP here. Thank you for the insightful comment. Will keep a look out for the posts :)

Just curious… why would option 4 hinder? Assuming that MOE is sponsoring the studies. Wouldn’t they wanna tap on you more and give you opportunities since they have paid and spent money on you? And being more intentional to develop you?

If MOE sponsors, they will tap on you by bonding you to service for a number of years. Your postgrad qualifications may also open some doors for you that require specialised knowledge and skills, like serving specific student profiles or becoming a specialist in certain divisions.

However, it is not necessarily true that if MOE sponsors postgrad studies, you will definitely enjoy accelerated advancement, high profile projects and opportunities to take on higher appointment. You may see some people come back from study leave then start flying, but it is usually because they had already been earmarked for "big things" prior to being sent for further studies.. not the other way around.

I was sort of in your shoes, doing great in school and basically my RO is taking good care of me and value the work that I was doing. Similarly for me, leadership at my previous school is quite static and I know I had to leave for better opportunities even though I love the school. One of the other HOD which I am on good terms with suggested I try HQ work. I took a leap of faith and applied to HQ and I got into a position that I wanted, spent three years in HQ doing work that is very different from teaching, got posted back to school as a SH and I got promoted to HOD. This is the path that you might consider.

Were you also GEO5 when you applied for HQ?

I applied as a GEO5

A wise HOD once told me, if you want to climb and improve, try not to be too comfortable where you are, it will hamper your growth as you will just repeat the same comfortable things and routines you are doing.

If i were you, i will either apply to go HQ or to another school (but don’t go in as a teacher, apply for SH minimally as you are already GEO5). Can consider cross deployment as well. Need to find the opportunity. Sure the next place you go might be crap but that really depends on your luck and what good you make out of it. You can stay in your school but there will not be progression unless a new P comes in to clean house or KPs move on. Even worse your school mergers and there is even a greater abundance of KPs. Most of us are not scholars with things handed on a plate so we need to find ways out. Alternatively, just be a HOT GEO5, relax, do minimum but don’t disadvantage your kids and go and do other stuff outside :)

W the current climate..How long will it take for a geo3 hot to reach geo4, sia.

Promotions are no longer determined by time norms, so there is no "time pressure" for an RnP panel to push a teacher for promotion. The technically correct answer to this is therefore: indefinite.

In practice, probably 6 to 8 years.

Any advice on what committee is good based in a school?

student leadership, will be involved in a lot of school events like orientation, speech day, open house

Highly visible work. Student leadership, applied learning programme, ICT/EdTech committee (especially in light of recent edtech push), PD committee, or if your school has any acad taskforce, 21CC taskforce etc to do broad planning work together with the KPs.

But student leadership can be tiring? How about less taxing committes that still are visible?

you want to climb or you don't want to climb?

I'm not saying that not wanting to climb is a bad thing. HOTs do extremely important work in schools and many HOTs don't want to climb for many valid reasons.

But if you want to climb you have to be prepared to slog.

want to climb then prepare to work hard..

the question you should be asking is: work until so tired then will promote or not?

how many years of service?

Yes totally agree. Work so hard, but get lousy boss/SL also cannot climb. Might as will just relax. Worse people more relax than you, cannot even teach properly but see them promote cause they are ‘special’. I know of someone work so long, very capable but still promote slower than others incompetent people unfortunately cause of bad ROs during their career. So perhaps a good question is how to find a good RO that will look after you.

Is cockpit/ data management considered as a visible committee?

It really all depends on school. High visibility or not just do your job well.

How do SLs decide who to put in student leadership?

Oftentimes it's proposed by the KP, then endorsed by SLs. If you've shown yourself to be competent + the KP in charge want you, then there's a good chance the SL will allow it.

If you're really keen, can discuss with your RO and/or the IC of student leadership. If both are supportive, it's likely to go into the deployment plan.

This is super true!!

What is it in student leadership that a school is looking for?
Anyone in student leadership care to share some insights and the interview process?