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Oh and be the way, there really isn't a middle office. It's very popular term but FO really refers to IB and capital markets while everything else is BO or corporate functions.
MO is a term concocted by a few ego-butthurts who couldn't get into FO but instead got some risk compliance and decided that they were MO but they are really just BO roles. |
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We are lucky because we are from local universities so we will be offered full time roles, not contract jobs. So for such positions, you can generally expect more than 4k, excluding local banks. For bulge brackets, above 4k is realistic for almost any role, not sure about corporate functions but I've heard of 4.5k for marketing roles within the asset management division. For local banks, apart from DBS - don't expect more than 4k. Even so, I believe DBS pays between 3.5k to 3.8k for the graduate associate positions and 4.5k for management associates. Other banks like HSBC, Nomura, SCB and so on I'm not too sure but generally, you can use GS as a measure of brand name and prestige to scale down the salary. |
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wtf is MO?
i only know the guy who books my trades call himself MO (in his email signature). till now i struggle to understand what that is. i only know FO makes money, the rest of the functions are BO. |
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All the best bro! |
Me, a UOL grad, just recruited a late-20s SMU grad with some years of work experience to work for me. LOL.
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you just validated the fact that sim uol is so rubbish, that even a former student wont hire someone from the same course. btw, is there a UOL in SG? i only know a sim uol distance learning programme. if you are from sim, pls say so, and not use "UOL grad". |
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Btw, I'm a SIM-UOL student. When asked, I just say it as it is. I have faced my fair share of discriminations in interviews and at work before. Truth to be told, I have seen more SIM-UOL with f***ed up work attitude as compared to local uni peeps. On the other hand, I have also worked with local uni students who are scholars but have an "uncoachable" attitude. They may be smart and able, but being an arrogant prick means seniors deem them as "uncoachable", and they do not get dibs on the best deals. End of the day, if one manages to get into the doors, progression boils down to attitude. Have a great day everyone! Don't stress so much about small stuff. Do whatever make you happy. Lastly, don't romanticised any jobs before you are even in the industry. Makes anyone look like an ignorant fool. :) |
Rebut pls
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After reading this, i feel those who took their "private degree" @ PSB, MDIS, SIM & etc had just burn their money away. Can anyone from "private degree" rebut this guy/gal? It's kind of demoralizing to hear. Those from sales (i.e. property/ insurance) does NOT count. Why? You just need O-Level. And sales is an art, not science. Anyone/anybody who is extrovert, brave & good communication skill, can do sales. If the person is good looking, even better. |
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Sim uol grad here. Doing b2b sales to FIs in a MNC. i'm below 30 drawing base of 9k. Comms per annum varies from 3-9months depending on the revenue i bring in.
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this forum sure attracts some looney characters. |
uol FCH here.
working as a AVP in BO with a big bank, drawing 8.5k monthly. have a team of smu/nus people reporting to me. |
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Working as VP with a big bank, drawing 12k monthly. Have a team of nus/ntu/smu and also UOL people reporting to me |
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If you have already worked for >10 years, and are in your mid-thirties, I wouldn't be too surprised that there are fresh local uni graduates (who are 23/25 years old) under your wing. In fact, I would feel bad for you if that's not the case. |
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In the current generation of 20+ year olds, if you don't have a degree, you can forget about climbing up. Even those seniors without degrees will find that they start to hit a ceiling before 40 years old due to the vast numbers of degree holders available nowadays. The company would rather invest in someone who is young and can go far. |
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I really don't understand why they are so proud about having failed to attain a degree or get into a reputable (i.e. not a private education provider) tertiary institution. Why do they talk about their low educational attainment like as though it is a point of pride? "I come from SIM and I have 5 NUS graduates working under me and I make $15,000 a month!" Good education is a wonderful thing to have. Getting a chance to learn in a reputable and stimulating environment like our local universities is a wonderful thing to have. In America and Europe, almost everybody goes to college, whether they are actually aiming for a high flying career /well paying job or not. It is part of their culture to do higher education, and not merely for a piece of paper. It is always said that Singapore is a "Confucian society" and there's great emphasis on learning and being knowledgable and cultured. But I don't see it here. How is it a point of pride to have failed to get into a good university (regardless of how much I'm earning now). If anything, I would be very sad that I missed a great opportunity and 4 years of university life in a real academic setting. These are good life experiences that cannot be easily enjoyed at other stages of your life, when you have family and other financial commitments. Now don't get me wrong. I don't despise people of low education. Many of our parents' generation didn't have much schooling and they worked hard and did well in life. There are also many young Singaporeans who simply cannot not afford to go for university and I never despise them for that. But SIM students obviously have the money to pay for expensive private tuition fees to get their degree. So its a matter of discipline that they did not get to a real full-fledged university. If I were them, I would be more regretful that I passed up a chance to study at a real university, rather than smug that I earn well in spite of not having studied in a good university. |
Well, the hard truth is that SIM kids are NOT cut out for tertiary education no matter what they might think.
It's just funny when they brag about being in charge of some local uni grad.. Shows you how insecure these losers are. |
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Also, if you have been to a dealing room before, you will know a bloomberg is not used by even most traders. Which market data provider one uses depends on the asset class focus and which FI you are from. I am in FX, so obviously im not using a Bloomberg. Go figure where over 80% of SGD spot is traded. |
You said you're in an MNC? What industry?
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It's simple. BE BETTER! All he did was give insight on the profile of an above average SMU student. Lets run through every category he mentioned: "Desire for a Job:" If local university students start finding jobs at the start of their final year, private university students can always start searching for jobs earlier. Start on day 1. Idk about NUS/NTU/SUTD but most SMU students take the internship at the end of year 3 very seriously, as if they are applying for a real job because they hope to convert that internship into a full-time job. This means that they are already finding their graduation job before they even apply for their end of year 3 internship, which is typically year 3 sem 1. Yup, so the majority of SMU students are already searching for their graduation job in year 3 sem 1 of a 4 year course. For certain competitive jobs like investment banking and management consulting, one needs to build up a competitive track record, which means you need to start planning the direction to build your portfolio latest by the start of year 2. "Job Experience:" Do internships that add more value. This is also linked to your desire for a job, because a competitive internship as I mentioned earlier will require a good track record and ability to pass the interviews. "On Campus Recruiting:" Okay he mentioned that this is a killer but I think that if you are really better, you can overcome this. Even token recruitment has its limits. The caveat is that you must really be better. You can apply to the firm directly. If I am an investment firm recruiter and you demonstrate that you can analyse and pitch stocks significantly better than the straight A double degree scholar from a better known university I might choose you even though I think that the other student has a better school name. But if both of you deliver roughly the same quality of analysis, then I would be inclined to recruit the person with a better school name/track record. "Leadership Experience:" He labelled the section as "leadership experience" but I think what he described was more about CCA records + overseas exchange. Overseas exchange aside, I believe that private uni students can also build up vibrant CCA records. He represented SMU and took up an exco position? I believe SIM students have similar opportunities. All in all, the gist is simply to be better. Be so good that companies want you more than the other local uni grads. Singapore has public libraries and free internet connection. Information that one needs to upgrade oneself is available to any Tom, Dick or Harry on the street! There is no excuse! |
You are very naive.
Most SIM kids don't even get to the interview rounds; HR of competitive MNCs/FIs literally shreds their resumes or toss them away, so how to prove that they are "better"? |
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CASE CLOSED. SIM students are doomed since day 1. Seem like only networking with people in the industry & a bit of luck is the way for SIM Student. |
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I've seen those with O-Level only and yet they can earn hundreds of thousands or even millions per annum doing sales. |
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In SMU Masters for Applied Finance program, the first Singaporean who ever scored perfect GPA within the program was from SIM-UOL and currently works in a PE fund as an investment analyst. That wasn't too long ago, I think last year's batch and that person just graduated from SIM-UOL within the last few years. If you want to dig, you can call SMU or ask any of your friends who did the SMU MFA program. You can also find that person's profile if you do some linkedin digging. That SIM-UOL person positioned themselves into a good position due to hard work post grad, not just a bit of luck and networking. You may brush this off, but your statement kinda imply that any local uni students can get into a PE fund as and when they wish for it because SIM-UOL student cannot be within the industry other than luck and networking. I know you have strong feelings against some of the disillusioned SIM students here, I do too, and there are definitely many loonies in this thread. However, your view that past success necessitates future success is dangerous. Correlation does not imply causation. Future success of any individual is not determined by first 21 years of hard work, but continuous hard work. Career is a marathon, not a sprint. We are just 1/3 into our pre-retirement life and 10% into our working career. This is an internet forum and I have nothing to prove. I felt like I have said my piece. If continuous bashing of SIM-UOL student makes you happy, I'm glad you have found your happy place here. Hope you don't do that openly offline too. Cheers! :) |
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B2B salespeople engage with decision makers (aka senior management) of other companies. They require high EQ, IQ, deep domain expertise and executive presence. By graduating from a local university only gets you a tick on the IQ box, nothing else. Let me enlighten you with some examples of "b2b sales" titles: Business Development Manager/Director Sales Engineer Relationship Manager/Director Sales Trader Technical Sales Representative Solution Sales Account Manger/Director Brokers (commodities, shipping, derivatives, fx, equities, bonds, credit) Partnerships Managers/Directors Private Bankers Partners Many of these people will become regional directors, and eventually CEOs. So does it count now? |
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There is nothing "out of whacked". The "doomed from day 1" statement is simply true. By not accepting that, you are simply living in denial. There are some traits you can automatically assume from university alone. An NUS grad is going to be an all-rounder, an NTU grad is going to have a vibrant hall life and strong ccas, an SMU grad is going to be able to do presentations well. What can you assume from an SIM grad? That he has already failed and seeking a second chance? Like it or not, that is the truth. Nobody is saying SIM grads are totally useless. People only get irritated when SIM grads keep thinking they are on par with local uni grads. They are simply much weaker. An MFA is for people who wants to do a career switch. Nobody cares about a guy doing MFA getting perfect GPA. Thats because nobody from a local uni who majored in business or econs needs to do an MFA. Your classmates in MFA is simply weak from the get go. |
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To the poster from #1531, i would say just save your energy with this one. It's pretty clear that guy who agrees with such a statement is the one living in denial. Probably suffering from some superiority complex to conceal his inadequacies. The point of this thread is let graduates from SIM-UOL know that you can succeed in the corporate world as illustrated by many who have done so, myself included. |
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It is obvious that SIMians completely fail at secondary level comprehension skills. It is actually very amusing when they try to use their version of logic to debate and actually question the english skills of others - ie paragraph 1 of #1554 and #1558. It is really questionable if they are even capable of doing any form of analysis at all. |
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A sense of entitlement coupled with your superiority complex also tells me you have not stepped into the corporate world. Good luck, you'll need it! |
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