Can you please cut the ******** and tell us why local U don't employ their own PhD students? What are the qualifications of professors lecturing at a local U? Harvard I believe?

Hi I'm the SMU student who wrote the post.

Tons of people contribute on online forums. You assume that anyone whose contribution exceeds a certain post length could only be motivated by low self-esteemed caused by their degree programme?

You have done nothing to criticize the validity of what I have written except an attack on the author. "11+11=22" is true regardless of whether your maths teacher teaches it in class or an infant mutters it. Instead of explaining why 11 plus 11 is not 22, you have decided to attack the speaker.

Plus, I don't think that my post was biased towards or against the SIM degree but rather an accurate representation of reality.

Most universities try not to hire their own PhD students to avoid academic inbreeding. There are a lot of articles on academic inbreeding which you can read online.

You seem like a much better person to debate with than the other lunatics.Thanks for your unbiased views and your previous post was really well detailed.Although I do have an argument to make regarding UOL-LSE being comparable to LSE.

It goes without saying that the standard in the internal programs is a lot better and thus holds more value than those external programs by UOL but LSE have explicitly stated on their website and I copy and paste from the LSE website:

1) High academic standards - the same stringent academic standards apply to all University of London degrees, whether students are taught internally at LSE or study individually at a distance.

2)Course development - LSE academics develop course structure and content, subject guides and other study materials to reflect internal standards.

3)
Examinations - LSE academics set and mark the examinations to the same standards as are applied at LSE.
4)
Further study - many graduates from the University of London International programmes have gained places on Masters and PhD programmes at LSE and other universities in the UK.

5) Transfer to LSE - degree and diploma students have successfully transferred to the second year of degree courses at LSE and other universities in the UK. More information can be found, here.

Now the last point is notably important because if you were to question the authenticity of the exams conducted by UOL then you would have already dismissed the 5th point as senseless.
Reference : ://.lse.ac.uk/study/UOLIP/international_degree.aspx

LSE also have stated that the external UOL degree programs closely follow those internally so degree transfer even though might be hard is not impossible.Remember we are debating about the comparability between LSE and their external programs not the likeliness of a person transferring to LSE.
Many people have dismissed the UOL degree pointing out that the limited modules place it at a disadvantage but are you going to say the same for those LSE programs conducted internally? I mean you can only transfer if both the internal and the external programs are similar right ? Both take up same number of modules which is 4 a year.
So then am I right so say even though there might be an enormous difference between the branding of both degrees the differences are rather subtle?

A brief explanation was already given previously.

You simply are not at a level where you can understand why.

Go and find out at other forums and then enlighten your fellow SIMians here.

I suggest you borrow this book ://.amazon.com/gp/product/1421404605

Then look at chapter "Do universities hire their own Ph.D.s as faculty?"

It is available in SIM library.

1. UOL is not LSE.

2. LSE does not participate in distance learning crap.

3. despite the crap SIM administrators tell you, LSE profs do not participate in distant learning crap. they do not set or mark papers from SIM students.

4. the lecturers are from UOL, not LSE. these are 2 completely different schools.

5. friend. dont out down singapore please. LSE is a world renowned institution with a great history and boast of nobel winners as academics. SIM is but a private university in singapore for students who could not make it into a normal university, hence chose to spend their money to earn a degree.

6. Summary - SIM is not LSE. pls stop adding youselves to my LSE alumni network in SG, or stop listing yourselves as LSE graduates on FB.

pal dont be deluded. if SIM students are judged based on "the same standard as applied at LSE", there will be no one who can finish the programme.

note i refrain from using the word "graduate" because SIM is not a university.

you sign up for SIM because you cant enter nus/smu econs, but you think you are judged on the same level as one of the world's top econs school?

its like saying driving a cherry QQ is the same as driving a bugati veyron.

What that guy is trying to say is that Cherry QQ may look like a cherry QQ but drives like a bugatii veyron.

I notice recently a lot of UOL grads are putting LSE in their CVs / Linkedin / Facebook or sometimes positioning it as some sort of LSE degree administered by SIM. The less blatant liars still put SIM-UOL in the CVs, but attempt to indirectly imply that they are held to the same standards from LSE during interviews or assessments.

Personally I think this is lame and probably due to the fact that the perpetrators are ignorant of what sort of university LSE is. These SIMs student/customers will have difficulty even convincing employers they are local university standards, to try and pawn off as LSE is just asking for trouble.

The English standards, executive presence, strategic thinking and depth of knowledge is just so far out that it is painful to watch them twist & turn like struggling in a quick sand of LSE expectations.

i think the key differece between a SIM student and one from a proper university is that one is paid for with money (no effort required), and the other is earned.

and i can empathise with paying for something, its just like if i walk and buy the latest IWC watch vs one that is given to me.

obviously, i would have more pride over what i paid for - after all i'm paying for it.

now this explains why SIM students feel the need to brand themselves as UOL/LSE/RMIT etc. and it boils down to the fact that since they are paying for it, brand matters.

what they fail to realise is that these institutions are a far cry from their fairy tale world. for starters, the courses run by SIM are not even available in UOL - they distinguish what is distant learning vs on campus.

lol why are you guys arguing over these little things..

when i first came out to work..

- i never sold myself as a direct product from LSE, but instead a distant learning UOL grad under SIM
- i got a FCH with 'gold' award, but this much is nothing compared to the FCH from local Us. I acknowledged that fact and not keep harping on it during interviews since its already stated there in my CV.
- realistic in my market worth.. no internships, no stellar results to compete with local grads on equal footing, no other connections. I started off with a contract job in a bank drawing 2.5 base
- a lot of opportunities were given to my former boss at the first bank i worked at. when i moved to another bank at the end of my contract, my former boss helped me to put in some good word since he know the hiring mgr as well.
- A lot of opportunities were given to me by my former line mgr then. I've since moved on to another bank (third) earlier this year...

Not gonna state any numbers here since some of you would probably say im bluffing.. But i'd say the figures are above the market rate for someone who only has barely 3yrs of experience even for local grads, and i am happy with the progress since i am just a 'filthy' SIM grad.

For students who are going to grad soon, be realistic in your demands. And no matter how you argue, SIM-UOL or whatever other distant learning progs from xyz uni, will be frowned upon at your initial job search when you dont have any bargaining chips on your hand.

To those who are bashing, there's some hard truths in what you've said. But for those who are just out to keyboard-bash SIM grads, c'mon la... Really nothing to do? Cut them some slack lah, don't need to go all out and put them down..

congrats. with this sweeping statement of yours, you've just offended the entire cohort of students taking part-time night courses after work at the local UniSIM.

maybe u are superman and dont feel tired / require any effort to rush down to uni campus after your work ends (Y)

well, ultimately they know deep down inside somewhere, that this is just a business transaction.

you pay and you get a dodgy cert.

no effort required. despite what you think, exams and assignements in SIM are of the same standards that nus/smu/ntu.

You can always enrol into NUS or NTU part time degree.

Hello all! Graduate with a 2:2 honors degree from uol. Was offered a $2600 per month salary (Finance industry, fresh grad), it is reasonable or too low? Need some advice on expected pay. Thank you!

Slightly on the high side for a pte 2:2 cert, most offers are 2.3-2.5k for uol. Any aws? Bonus how much roughly?

There is aws, bonus varies.

2.1 Business from UOL can put expected how much?

Nobody in pte sector care about 1/2.1/2.2 UOL honors. Starting should be 2.3-2.5k in most cases; banks might be slightly higher, but since they don't give 13 month end up total package the same.

you mean theres a classification of papers issued by sim?

no difference from a diploma grad.

sim-uol is consider like advance diploma then proper bachelor degree. pte sector dun really bother to find out what sort of honours u get anyway.

HAHAHAHA, A big LOL to all those who put others down, carry on with your condescending behaviour, its what singaporeans do best, one day never belittle our fellow countymen, at night cannot slp well

I am drawing $3k per month as a fresh grad under UOL. I don't think a fresh grad diploma holder get that kind of pay. :)

Yup! Degree classifications matters only in Govt Sector. And if you are a fresh graduate from SIM, without any job experience, most probably you will not be shortlisted if you apply for govt/stat board.

Unless you have intern experience, or did well. My friend did part time studying and worked at HSBC for 1 year (in his final year).

Upon graduation, he managed to secure a job in Temasek Holdings as data analyst. [Frankly speaking, I was quite shock as well. He didn't pull string or anything. FYI, he didn't graduate with FCH or 2nd Upper.]

Don't get too proud because you graduate with a degree. Almost everyone now is a degree holder.

Don't be upset, when people are putting you down because you are holding a private degree.

No point arguing if private degree is better than or local degree is better.

Gain your experience where ever you are, and have your own goal and target in your life. Achieve it and be happy about it. Degree is just a paper for your stepping stone. After that will be how you perform and execute your job. No point comparing whose degree is better or not.

I have friends who graduated from local unis and are having difficulty finding jobs. Not just private degree holders only.

The life that we are living is for our own, and not for comparing with each other and make oneself miserable. Achieve what you want in your life and be happy and grateful.

Chill guys.

I graduated in 2009 from UOL,worked for 2 and a half years at 2.5k-3.2k went on to do a masters from LSE with my 2:1 qualification now I'm earning 5k having only 2 1/2 years of experience.Am I in a good position?

here comes all the sim make it big stories again...

Big stories is not making it to lse making it into Ivy League is big story :P or job in Wall Street better still.

These are outliers. Nobody said that these stories are representative of the average SIM student.

Same goes for local uni students as well right? There are outliers as well.

Just chill man guys.

Im proudly from SIM, Clementi. Typical local Uni grads only know how to whine and complain when we, private unis undergraduate, beat them to the career game cause they think they are ''oh so great'' and deserve to be on a pedestal while everyone kowtow to them.

I'm 3 years into my career with a second upper and I'm in the 80% - 90% percentile income group of my peers who are around my age. Eat this, delusional local unis fools.

proof: ://ctrlv.in/644203

its pointless to compare salaries across industries as different industries pay different amounts. a fresh grad banker will easily match or surpass your current salary.

anyway, congrats on your good job. lets not forget we are all singaporeans and we should stand together against others.

pls refrain from using the word "graduate" and "degree" if you are from SIM.

there's no such thing as a private degree. its private because you bought it?

in Singapore, all universities are publicly funded. FACT.

and why not? based on you saying this, it reflects your self esteem and ego.
private=bought? its correct if its a transaction like the SPU degree, however private students do need to undergo exams and etc too, no doubt the standards of the exams may be different but saying private degree= bought, that is low.

and yes, you are right, all sg uni are publicly funded by all taxpayers, so why the need to bash other pte uni degree? the local uni funded by taxpayers(inclusive of your parents) are also giving out free scholarships to foreigners(free dorms, free expenses, etc). now that is money well spent isn't it?

so people shall we embrace our fellow foreigners(tiongs, indians and others) because they came from the same local uni as us and in times of need, they will definitely be the ones to help us also right? why nt we come up with a plan to help them integrate into our society and replace all those locals with pte degree since they are pretty worthless(in some of your minds)? that would seem like a good idea, cheers =)

This thread is ridiculously full of ****. I came here for the topic and read stupid replies by SIM (and non-SIM, seriously, what are you guys doing here?) kids. It's no wonder people like to trample on certs from SIM. I'm a UOL 2nd upper econs/mgt, recently grad 2 months ago, and although I finished my studies in 2 years, I still feel slightly ashamed to share that I attended sim-UOL.

Why? Look around you, literally, in school. 80% are rich brats who just waste their time and parents' money. They don't do anything value-added to their career and graduate with lofty aspirations thinking they can get a high salary (the same can be said for local grads).

Degrees are just a door opener, I don't think it matters 5 years later (as long as you pursue a progressive career and are an average to above average performer). A fresh grad will need work experience and interview tact to land a good job and salary. So why the competition? A local uni grad can be academically smart and still have a slow career progression, on the other hand, a "private uni grad" can be streetwise and progress fast in his area of expertise. Of course, there's only a handful of such people from either schools.

Anyway, tl;dr, back to the gist of this thread. I'm earning 3.2k, in a industry and job of my choice. I took some time to find a job as there weren't many openings for this type. It's not an easy job to enter (non-bank sector), and a good tip will be: do internships during your study break!!! If you don't want to "waste your precious holiday", don't cry and compare when you are earning ~2.5k and your local uni friends are earning ~1.5x your pay.

Reason is simple - the minority SIM grads who have succeeded would have been busy with their careers. Why would they bother to come here to post random **** about how much they earn?

The recent ranking shows Nus at 12 in the world.Anyone on this forum can explain why it's ranked higher than Ivy League schools?

i believe no one here can give you a definite answer, you would have to go to the source and find out how did they rank the schools, what criteria are taken into consideration, etc

Am the original poster. Agreed, had some free time so I decided to check out how peers are doing, since Sim-UOL students just graduated. But it seems like there's plenty of local grads here on this thread as well. I think people do read, this comes up as one of the top results on Google search for salary+SIM, and it's not wrong to be curious how your pay is compared to your peers. Just that this thread is a turnoff because so many people are arguing here. I read some of the threads here but don't post replies.

firstly, brush up on your command of english. its embarrassing that you write 2-3 complete paragraphs of complete gibberish. your pri6 english teacher will have a nightmare reading this.

secondly, yes private degrees are bought, very much like SPU. dont tell me that you have a full curriculum/attend exams tutorials etc. everyone knows the standards are lax, and there's no way SIM students would be able to pass an exam in a local uni. mind you, in a proper uni, grades are bell curved. i am competing against the very best, unlike in sim where the grades are not normal distributed (dont say otherwise, i have insider info on this. if its anything, they have to mark up sim papers because if not the majority will flunk out).

there is no need to bash fellow singaporeans, i agree. but there is a difference when sim students go out thinking that they are up there with the very best, and go around posting on their CVs/linkedin/facebook they are from UOL/LSE/RMIT etc.

be humble, and say you did a private degree from SIM. dont list crap like LSE on your facebook, and join groups like LSE Alumni in SG. thats just plain rubbish

wait, bro.

your basic salary is $7,875 per month and your cpf contribution is $1,000???? how does that exactly work, because employee cpf contribution rate should be 20% (i'm assuming you're 50 years old and below)

please enlighten me, i'm not too familiar with the cpf thingy.