I second this. Honestly juniors in the legal industry should stop responding to fear tactics. Employment is a two way relationship. It may not be an entirely equal relationship but you're not a property like an ox owned by a farmer.

thoughts on a&g banking partners?

Most of the posters here are university students or fresh grads talking big and trying to act like they're in the know or have insider info. On an anonymous forum no less. It's pretty piteous.

Agreed.

Much like you and me.

Advice Needed
 

Is it worth it to take on a six-figure loan to finance my studies in Cambridge for Law?

What's are your alternatives? No use paying so much if you can study for cheaper at NUS/SMU.

Does anyone know the compensation package for JLC? Monthly pay, bonus, etc.

Worth. You will be head and shoulders above local law grads incl JLCs and FCHs

It's a close call. I assume you also have a place in local law.

Normally it'd be a no-brainer to accept Oxbridge law, but if you need to take a loan, it means your family isn't privileged like the typical mid upper class law kid. So there's an added dimension to consider.

Cambridge law is definitely advantageous, but you have to make sure you leverage it for a spot in the higher paying int'l firms. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

A poor outcome in your case would be to go to Cambridge, come back having to pay back the student loan, and start in a Big 4 on a lousy local salary like the rest.

There's an element of risk. But if you're brave enough, I'd say take it. You're young after all.

Comparable to B4 NQ since they are getting an extra 1 month bonus on top of the usual package for civil service

I have accepted NUS Law as insurance. Update is that it will now be a mid-ish five figure loan, as my parents are willing to loan me some extra money and I will be trying to make some of my own money before I matriculate. Does that help make it more “worth it”? Thanks all for the advice thus far.

An additional question is, if I intend to come back to Singapore to practice (take Part A), will I still have an advantage as a Cambridge grad? For instance do I have an edge in securing a TC in an intl firm with a SG office, given that they hire mostly from the NUS/SMU. Thanks!

Yep I did receive offers for local as well. If I’m intending to come back to practice, does Camb law (FCH lets say) still provide leverage to secure a TC in the Singapore office of an intl firm - given that they hire more local grads typically?

In relation to risk, if I am able to reduce it to a five-figure loan, does that make it more “worth it”? Thanks for all the genuine advice!

If you can accept uncertainty and is comfortable with that 5-fig loan, then go ahead. In the long term is an added advantage.

It's not worth it. As a senior associate in an international firm who has to shortlist CVs and interview candidates for positions, I can assure you that NUS FCH/SMU summa is more than enough to get you shortlisted for an interview. The rest depends on your CCAs and interview performance, and at no point have I ever seen the Oxbridge brand being used a a tiebreaker.

Don't believe me? Just check out the profiles of people working in many of the top international firms here. Lots of people from NUS/SMU.

People need to shed this colonial mindset that it is worth it to get into 5-figure debt just for the Oxbridge brand on your CV.

I am assuming this is when compared to the current Big 4 NQ pay of 7.5k. If one is not intending to pursue litigation, is there any point in JLC?

Agreed with this. Even if you do decide to work in the UK, keep in mind that the taxes for the Magic Circle firms there are 40-45%, and the cost of living in London is far greater than Singapore. All this to say that, the take-home pay compared to working locally at a Big 4 firm is not too different.

The only difference is if you manage to land an international firm in Singapore. And as the poster above has described, it is not too huge an advantage - certainly (IMO) not enough to go into debt for.

hijacking your reply to ask - is second (uppers) enough to get an interview?

Yes since the Supreme Court is still a good reputational intermediary and will open many doors, especially in the international firms, after your JLC stint. Some of the top corporate and transactional partners in the international firms are ex-JLCs.

Yes if you have decent grades and exceptional CCAs (like mooting wins etc).

Otherwise, you can still get considered if you work for a while in a top local team and have gained good experience. But it will be very hard to get hired straight out of law school since there is nothing to distinguish you on paper.

definitely not TMT given the horror stories there.

ironically the mentality being fostered in us is that partners are the ones putting you on files, giving you work, and you should thank them for it (especially in a pool or big firm setting). slaves are taught to be thankful for being put to work.

Ah I see. Does the fact that it is statistically easier or somewhat less competitive to get a first in Cambridge change anything as well?

Ah I see. Does the fact that it is statistically harder or somewhat more competitive to get a 2:2 in NUS Law change anything as well?

I don't necessarily think this is true. Speaking from experience, JLCs are more valued by Singapore firms than international firms. To put it bluntly, why the **** would an ang moh M&A partner care about an applicant's court experience?

JLC does provide some prestige, and beyond that it is a marker to prospective employers that the JLC is (1) very intelligent, and (2) very good at the law. As you can infer, these skillsets are more litigation focused. A transactional partner wouldn't necessarily be on the look out for these skillsets (where transactional experience counts as much as any legal expertise). If you were an M&A partner looking to hire, would you hire a JLC over someone who trained at a good M&A practice and has at least 1 year of practice under their belt? Trying to compare apples to apples here since I'm equating working at the courts as being as intellectually rigorous as working in a good M&A shop. I think that the JLC might find itself in an uphill battle - the partner would probably have a raw (but likely talented) product to work with, and that person might not necessarily catch on to transactional practice.

On the point about "top corporate and transactional partners in the international firms are ex-JLCs", my gut feel is that this is a bit overblown. The sample size is small. First, few JLCs go into corporate practice - most who leave the courts go into either AGC or a litigation practice. Second, many JLCs are hired into Singapore law firms (since it appears that Singapore law firms place more value on JLCs than international firms). So, taking that into account, the number of JLCs who both entered corporate practice and left to join international law firms is few to say the least. I'm happy to be corrected if more than 5 examples can be put forward - personally I've only ever seen one ex-JLC in an international firm as a corporate partner.

Perhaps. Some employers might not know that Cambridge gives out firsts to basically the top 25% and regard it as equal to an NUS FCH. But people in the know will value the NUS FCH more highly.

Sour grapes NUS 2:2
No money go camb, no brain to make NUS FCH. Too bad bottom 50% U suck grapes.

Sour grapes cantab.
Got money go camb, buay paiseh put your phony Cantab MA on firm profile tsk

Man u r balding. Use a better profile peekture.

In the end NUS FCH (or any degree and degree classification) will get you so far. After that, it's about your intellect, charisma and common sense. I've seen some NUS FCH with truly abysmal attributes outside of being good at law exams.

Being grateful is fine, but the partners don't own you. They are entitled to put their self-interests first, but so are you. When you need to leave for greener pastures, leave. Guilt-tripping, fear mongering is just low class.

R u from A & G friend?

Seow Tzi Yang?

KB from Paul Weiss?

saw the HSF people at the careeer fair. Seems like the TC contract is very good. International pay even before getting called. Just that their window is March onwards. Thoughts? Anyone know people there and what it's like?

The Singapore arm is not great. Toxic culture and one of the directors apparently was dismissed from a previous place due to misconduct.

So juicy, what type of misconduct? Pray tell.

s://siac.org.sg/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Thio_Shen_Yi_profile_jan2015.pdf
Jealous of TSY ah? Master of Arts (Law) from Cambridge University. Graduated in July 1991 with Second Class Honours (Upper Division).

Full head of hair for SYT to grab onto during cunnilingus. Any Cantab learned friends with baldness fetish?????

Cannot. NDA signed liao. Everything else we say here is unverified hearsay

anybody's firm not closing full/half day for CNY eve?

some of the comments here... not that you need to censor yourself out of principle, but at least think about the consequence.

if the subject of your comment has 10s of lawyers working for him, i think he can spare a few doing nothing but pre-action discovery against the forum and telco to figure out who you are.

hope you used vpn.